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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
Titania,
Thanks so much for your fabulous review of Charles Dickens' Great Expectations. I re-read it about a year and a half ago and was blown away yet again by what a wonderful writer Dickens is and what a phenomenal tale the story encompasses. There are both fairy-tale elements with the descriptions of the larger-than-life, withered Miss Havisham and her rotting twenty-year-old wedding gown and rotten cake covered with spiders and cobwebs and Pip's mysterious benefactor who grants Pip's heart's desire to be a gentleman so that he'll be good enough for Estella. And what a long-suffering love Pip has for Estella in spite of her heartlessness! I loved that description of Pip's feelings for her that you quoted. It was one of the passages I love most in the entire book. Just as it is for you, Great Expectations remains one of my all-time favorite books. Isis~ |
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I had to read this forty years ago for O level, under the avuncular guidance of Booker-winner Stanley Middleton, who’s still churning out books at nearly ninety. Trouble is, Leavis was his hero, and he subjected us all to close reading of the text, giving us a ten-question test every Friday morning, after we’d all read a chapter or two of the book. I’m paraphrasing here, but one of the questions went: ‘How many mice scampered across Miss Havisham’s floor?’ I may have altered the verb to render it a little more exciting than ‘ran across’, but my reaction to that question is still the same: ‘Who give a shit how many mice scampered across the floor’? (Needless to say, a few clever clogs got the answer right, which I found incomprehensible.) Why incomprehensible? Because, surely, our attentions should have been on more important things. Stan Middo was and still is a great guy, but I’ll never forgive him for this stupid question , which is enough to put anyone off English literature for life.Nevertheless, in spite Leavis’s dominant presence over literature, I loved it and loved Great Expectations. Titania mentions a number of things, and I’m again reminded that books are about moments, and there are a couple that spring to mind about the minor character Wemmick and his girlfriend Miss Skiffins. As I recall, Miss Skiffins won’t allow Wemmick to put his arm around her waist – until, I believe, the time when they become engaged. (I’m sure Miss Titania will rap my knuckles with her steel rule if I’ve not got all the details right though.) Great Expectations is about coming of age, maturing out of petty snobbery and prejudices. It’s painful to see Joe in London and we hate Pip for his embarrassment at the same time as we empathise with him: coming of age is a painful process, especially if you’ve changed class in Victorian England. In Pip’s change he’s forgotten that he too, in London society, was once exactly what Joe is here, and in Dickens’s own phrase from another novel: ‘a dolphin in a sentry box’. This makes me wonder how many other dolphins in sentry boxes I’ve missed in Dickens’s novels, as I believe this is exactly how Dickens himself must have often felt in his journey from the blacking factory to riches and lecture tours in America. Thanks for the memory, Titania. |
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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
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) across Miss Havisham's floor, but I do know we have one little mouse that scampers across the floor of our garage. We don't have any rotten wedding cake to feed the lit'l critter. However, he seems to have a penchant for sunflower seeds, and those are high in protein and much healthier than the cake would be.It sounds like your ten-question tests every Friday weren't anything to look forward to, Lionel. I can't even imagine what Miss Havisham's number of mice would have to do with anything! But I daresay your teacher had a lot of fun compiling his lists of questions for those exams. Quote:
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affects were of Mr. Middo's teaching on your classmates. Hmmm.... Quote:
of this world! It doesn't surprise me at all that you ended up loving Great Expectations. Indeed, I would've scarcely expected anything else, Lionel. Quote:
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. However, you make such an apt point, Lionel, about how Dickens himself must have felt like a "dolphin in a sentry box" when he moved out of the working class and ended up being among the literary celebrities. I'm certain it was an adjustment that was extraordinarily awkward for him. The comments about empathizing with Pip in my review were intended to spark discussions about this book such as what you shared above. Anyone whose social status and class level has drastically altered since when they were young must surely relate to Pip. Coming of age is indeed a painful process, and it is particularly painful for Pip. I think the fact he is fully cognizant of his embarrassment regarding Joe, and feels ashamed of it, makes the reader feel even more closely attuned to him. An excerpt from an essay by John Lucas, professor of English and Drama at the University of Loughborough in Leicestershire, England, follows: "...The severity of Pip's self-judgement may eventually prove to be in excess of what he has to show us of his life. In other words, there is a third point of view that Great Expectations allows us--ours. Almost the best thing about the novel is that because of the self-excoriating quality with which Pip is determined to tell the truth about himself, we understand that his desire to atone for past errors leads him to identify error where none exists. There must be no hint of a desire for martyrdom about this, or the novel will be ruined. Dickens's success depends on his making Pip's desire for atonement plausible and honorable, not priggish or coy. And by and large the success is guaranteed because in spite of Pip's faults we are persuaded of his honesty, candor and essential likeability. Because, although it is proper that he should regard the course of his life as dictated by faults, it is also proper that we should see the matter otherwise. In particular, the novel makes us understand that great expectations are highly problematic. Can one even be guilty of entertaining them, or are they inevitably fed into people's lives?" That last question is food for thought. Is it not? Quote:
~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran |
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Peter Carey's JACK MAGGS may serve as an interesting pendant to this book. The convict, Magwitch, was of course deported to Australia - reading GREAT EXPECTATIONS, the Australian Carey realised that Magwitch was the sort of person who was a part of his country's history. This inspired him to write a take on the GREAT EXPECTATIONS story from the convict's point of view, although it's not a straight re-telling. It also includes the young Charles Dickens as a character, not in an altogether flattering light.
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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
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I haven't yet read any of Peter Carey's work, nor did I know anything about this book! It sounds fascinating! In fact, you piqued my interest to such an extent that I just ordered Jack Maggs from the library. I might even have a chance to pick it up tomorrow. The fact that the story is written from Magwitch's point of view is what intrigues me. It'll be interesting to see how Carey incorporates the young Dickens into the book, also. Thanks so much for your post...and for the enlightening information! ~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran |
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Oddly, I've never read anything by Dickens. It must have been all those sugary versions of David Copperfield, Oliver Twist and A Christmas Carol when I was a child, but I've always been put off. I must admit, though, the more snippets of his prose I read, and the more top class adaptations I see, the more tempted I am. I think I might put Great Expectations on my reading list (or Hard Times, Bleak House, or Little Dorrit, or maybe all four ).
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A marvellous review Titania7, very good indeed, and lots that I recognise but hadn't myself picked up from the book.
I have to admit, I loved the sections dealing with Pip's childhood, his adulthood less so, but Dickens has always been for me a curate's egg of a writer with parts I adore and parts I (I am so tempted to write deplore here, just for the rhyme) enjoy less. Hard Times similarly, I adore the sections on education, Gradgrind and the rest, and some of the social politics is very affecting, but at other times it lapses into sentiment and loses me when it does. Still, I thoroughly enjoyed this review and it caused me to reassess the work, which is no bad thing at all. |
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You see, Titania, this is a review. By comparison, I scribble with my Crayolas and try to stay inside the lines as best I can (which is hardly ever). Very well done.
And Miss Havisham has always been a character of great tragedy to me. She could no more help who she loved than Pip could. We all plunge ourselves into the thorns hoping to find a rose. How she dealt with it, on the other hand... |
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Anyway, on the subject of reviews, I adored yours of Tristram Shandy and if I can ever work out how to comment on your blog I shall say so there also. |
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Your a lioness titania, outstanding review!
you know that you have already mesmerised me with your words previously, and this book is on my reading stack. Thanks again. |
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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
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Many thanks for your wonderful comments, Isis. They are much appreciated! ~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran |
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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
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I'm delighted you enjoyed my review! I think what's so marvelous about Great Expectations is that it offers a little something for everyone. Like so many of Dickens' novels, Great Expectations deals with the day-to-day struggles of people just like you and me. Disappointment in love, for example, is a common theme that appeals to most of us. Then, of course, there is intrigue, mystery, deception and a host of other elements in such books as this and Bleak House that make them absolutely mesmerizing novels! Quote:
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Thanks so very much for your comments! I'm so pleased that you found this forum, Galatea. You're proving yourself to be a splendid contributor! ~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran |
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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
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Thanks so very, very much for the complimentary words. Believe me, they are quite appreciated. If I have brought to light certain elements of Great Expectations that you didn't notice when you read it, then I am delighted. Perhaps you will re-read it soon! Quote:
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If you do re-read Great Expectations, I'll be eager to hear what you have to say about it, Max. Thanks so much again!! ~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran |
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I appreciate the compliments about my review, but you do yourself a disservice with your denigrating self-assessment. Quote:
Very aptly spoken, Ms. Wilde. I suspect that many of us are attracted to the deceptive fragrance of the rose...not knowing that it can oft-times be as deadly a blossom as some of those flowers in Rappuccini's Garden. Thanks once again for your generous words. ~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran Last edited by titania7; 19-Dec-2008 at 03:21. |
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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
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~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran |
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Having now read Great Expectations (based on your recommendation here), I concur with your judgement. Five stars with pluses
.Some of the things that really impress me are: 1. The vividness and exuberance of the writing. This is particularly noticeable when he includes scenes that aren't really necessary for the plot, like the rubbish-Hamlet chapter. The descriptions of the crowd tormenting Mr Wopsle were so funny, I kept reading them out to my wife (to her annoyance, obviously); 2. Pip's searing honesty about his own motives. He's more like a twentieth century anti-hero than your typical Victorian hero; 3. Wimmick. Where did he get that character from? And how does he get away with making him so ridiculous and so admirable at the same time? 4. The sympathy with which he makes you understand the kind of life Magwitch has had. I understood why it was so important for Magwitch to make Pip a gentleman - something I never really believed in the David Lean film. I can't wait for my next Dicken's novel. |
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Re: Charles Dickens: Great Expectations
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I am delighted that you enjoyed the book so much! Isn't Dickens magnificent?? There aren't many novels that I could read at least once each year, but Great Expectations is certainly one of them. Quote:
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I'll look forward to finding out which Dickens novel you choose and to hearing your thoughts on it, Galatea. I hope you'll enjoy it every bit as much as Great Expectations. Although I'm in no way attempting to sway you (I've been accused of that sort of thing before, which is why I'm clarifying ), I highly recommend Bleak House. ~Titania
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"All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant. Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran |
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, but the next book is more likely to be:Tale of Two Cities (because I always loved the film - with Dirk Bogarde as Sidney Carton) OR Oliver Twist (the story is so familiar, I'd like to see what the original is like) OR Hard Times (because it's set close to where I was brought up) |
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Titania, what a great review!
Great Expectations is a book so dear to me and certainly one of my all-time favourites. I had a cheap paperback translation which I kept reading and re-reading all throughout the fifth grade, again and again, until the book was completely torn. Before that I had been reading mostly children's literature like The Wind in the Willows, Narnia and Mary Poppins and it was probably this book which has brought about my literary awarenes. I have re-read it many times since.
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