Thomas Mann: Royal Highness

[LizzySiddal]

How is everyone getting on? I was very relieved to finish this last night - I found it excruciatingly dull on the whole. I know now why it wasn't included on my uni-Thomas-Mann syllabus and for those whose first Mann this was, and who might be put off by it, I'd recommend Buddenbrooks, which is everything that this isn't. Or if you want something shorter, Death In Venice, which I'm going to read in February. I need a faith restorer.

Sybarite - could you provide details of the letters between Thomas and Heinrich that you were reading?

[Colette Jones]

Originally Posted by LizzySiddal

How is everyone getting on? I was very relieved to finish this last night - I found it excruciatingly dull on the whole. I know now why it wasn't included on my uni-Thomas-Mann syllabus and for those whose first Mann this was, and who might be put off by it, I'd recommend Buddenbrooks, which is everything that this isn't. Or if you want something shorter, Death In Venice, which I'm going to read in February. I need a faith restorer.

It was my first Thomas Mann and I really enjoyed it so it sounds like I'm in for a real treat with his others! I have Death in Venice but it is translated by H.T. Lowe-Porter who reportedly changed things around that she didn't like. I think I'd prefer to read a different translation! Which do you have, Lizzy?

On to the next chapter, Albrecht II, where the Spoelmanns enter the story. Mr Spoelmann has inherited his wealth so cannot be "blamed" (page 133 in my edition). It is his father who is the real Leviathan and Croesus (I had to look these up on wikipedia, and I'm not sure I understand why Spoelman is referred to as a Leviathan (sea monster?). Croesus makes sense because he is rich.

[LizzySiddal]

Originally Posted by Colette Jones

It was my first Thomas Mann and I really enjoyed it so it sounds like I'm in for a real treat with his others! I have Death in Venice but it is translated by H.T. Lowe-Porter who reportedly changed things around that she didn't like. I think I'd prefer to read a different translation! Which do you have, Lizzy?

On to the next chapter, Albrecht II, where the Spoelmanns enter the story. Mr Spoelmann has inherited his wealth so cannot be "blamed" (page 133 in my edition). It is his father who is the real Leviathan and Croesus (I had to look these up on wikipedia, and I'm not sure I understand why Spoelman is referred to as a Leviathan (sea monster?). Croesus makes sense because he is rich.

I always thought leviathan = crocodile. Huge jaws, made money by eating up others?

I also have the Lowe-Porter translation of Death in Venice. I didn't know that about it. Neither do I have the original German text to hand. I shall have to do some digging.

[Colette Jones]

Originally Posted by LizzySiddal

I always thought leviathan = crocodile. Huge jaws, made money by eating up others?

Oh, that would make sense.

Originally Posted by LizzySiddal

I also have the Lowe-Porter translation of Death in Venice. I didn't know that about it. Neither do I have the original German text to hand. I shall have to do some digging.

Someone here wrote that (about Lowe-Porter) on this thread but it was during the days which posts were lost. I can't remember who said it.

[Sybarite]

Hi everyone,

It was me who mentioned that Lowe-Porter had apparently changed and/or altered parts of Death in Venice because she didn't like them – it was mentioned in a copy of the book that I've got, in the introduction by the translator – I'm at work now, so I'll check the name later.

As to the letters, I'll look that stuff up again when I have the chance. I'm afraid I've been out of touch for a few days, and will be pretty busy for the rest of this week.

[Colette Jones]

Here's a line (p.134 in my book) which really made me laugh:

<speaking of Spoelman's daughter>
"You may well say so, Ditlinde, and she's clever, so I've heard; she studies like a man, algebra, and highbrow subjects of the sort."

I have never heard of algebra being classed as highbrow. Would it have been considered so at the time, or is Mann having a giggle too?

[Sybarite]

Originally Posted by Colette Jones

Here's a line (p.134 in my book) which really made me laugh:

<speaking of Spoelman's daughter>
"You may well say so, Ditlinde, and she's clever, so I've heard; she studies like a man, algebra, and highbrow subjects of the sort."

I have never heard of algebra being classed as highbrow. Would it have been considered so at the time, or is Mann having a giggle too?

The book was published in 1909 and so, I suppose, many people would have thought it rather odd ("highbrow", perhaps) for a woman to be studying such an 'unfeminine' subject). I think, though, that Mann is also showing us, again, how behind-the-times the monarchy in his book is – possibly even the whole country.

[Beth]

What do you think Mann was trying to say by creating Imma as an American? It almost seemed that he might be having a bit of fun in portraying her as something akin to a hog on ice. I think for the purpose of Klaus Heinrich's expansion, wouldn't any good woman (who tripped Klaus' trigger) have suited the purpose? Did Mann view Americans positively? Or is this reading too much into the text...

[Colette Jones]

Originally Posted by Beth

What do you think Mann was trying to say by creating Imma as an American? It almost seemed that he might be having a bit of fun in portraying her as something akin to a hog on ice. I think for the purpose of Klaus Heinrich's expansion, wouldn't any good woman (who tripped Klaus' trigger) have suited the purpose? Did Mann view Americans positively? Or is this reading too much into the text...

I think there was a reason and it had to do with racism. She and her father left the US because they were treatly badly because they had Indian blood (generationally quint, quad, tre). It was okay in Germany - they were not shunned.

I think I wrote earlier that I thought inheritance was a major theme in this book. Imma and Klaus Heinrich had that in common - KH inherited his title; Imma and her father inherited their wealth. There was nothing they could do about it. Imma inherited her Indian blood. When Imma notices KH's left hand (which is remarkedly late given the amount of time they have spent together!) she asks "Were you born like that?" She seems to like him better following this and softens a bit - he is human after all, with this imperfection. He then lets down his guard completely, he is so relieved to not have to hide it.

[Sybarite]

I think it's also to do with the US representing the 'new world' – modernity – as opposed to 'old, old-fashioned Europe'.

[Colette Jones]

Originally Posted by Sybarite

I think it's also to do with the US representing the 'new world' – modernity – as opposed to 'old, old-fashioned Europe'.

Yes, but along with that, old fashioned prejudice against them, as they were not "pure". Ironic that this was an issue in the US but not Germany, isn't it?

Back to the repetitive descriptions of the characters a moment: the countess, with her blush on one side of the face, pale on the other - this seems fairly obviously to describe her personality, sometimes completely sensible, sometimes completely confused, even perhaps schizophrenic.

What of Imma though: pursing her lips and moving her head from side to side. Cynical? Contrary? Negative?

And Albrecht: much is made of him extending his hand without removing his arm from his side.

[Sybarite]

At this stage (and I apologise again for being so slow with this book, because I'm really rather busy this month), the only reference that I have seen to issues of race etc is early on, when the then Grand Duke asks Sammat about prejudice and whether it holds him back.

I haven't seen anything, at this juncture, to suggest that there is an attitude toward the Spoelmans of anything other than possible class-based snobbery and, in the case of Ditlinde's opinions of Imma, very dated attitudes toward what is and is not suitable for a woman to do.

I think that there is a danger of trying to read too much into the book – in essence, I think that Mann was writing a light romance, that also acts as a call for an old-fashioned society to modernise: to rejuvenate or be reborn, in effect. He presents a portrait of a stagnating country and then seems to be showing us what modernity and industry can do. The rose is symbolic – and I very much expect that, when (presumably) Klaus Heinrich learns that modernity is good and change necessary for growth, the rose will come back to life and will produce it's real perfume. That is very much in keeping with the fairy tale sense of the story.

[Colette Jones]

Originally Posted by Sybarite

At this stage (and I apologise again for being so slow with this book, because I'm really rather busy this month), the only reference that I have seen to issues of race etc is early on, when the then Grand Duke asks Sammat about prejudice and whether it holds him back.

I haven't seen anything, at this juncture, to suggest that there is an attitude toward the Spoelmans of anything other than possible class-based snobbery and, in the case of Ditlinde's opinions of Imma, very dated attitudes toward what is and is not suitable for a woman to do.

The racism is definitely and bluntly described - you must not be there yet, sorry!

[Colette Jones]

I made a note regarding p. 298 (end of chapter 8): Klaus did not mourn for Uberbein.

Few pitied him, nobody mourned for him - with one exception, the Chief Surgeon of the Dorothea Children's Hospital, Uberbein's only congenial friend, and perhaps a fair lady with whom he had played a game of cards once in a while. But Klaus Heinrich always honoured the memory of his unfortunate tutor.

Was KH unable to mourn or just not inclined to?

[Beth]

Oh, I think Klaus is a warm blooded character, Colette. Maybe his regard for Uberbein as the chief tutor of his youth gets watered down by the subsequent years. What I found compelling about this little fable is the transformation of Klaus into a real leader. Amid the fluff of the tale, I think Mann placed the kernel of a beautiful story, that of genuine friendship which brings grace and dignity into the kingdom.

[Colette Jones]

Originally Posted by Beth

What I found compelling about this little fable is the transformation of Klaus into a real leader...

Yes, and it is also a tranformation into a real person.

Chapter 6 opens a description of Klaus Heinrich's day to day life, and the third paragraph begins:

There was no workaday element about his life and nothing was quite real; it consisted wholly of a succession of exceptional moments.

KH seemed quite satisfied living in this way until he realized that Imma did not have any respect for that sort of person or life.

He eventually opens up to Imma and she sees him as a real person (symbolised by her noticing he had a problematic arm) and not just a performer.