Is fiction important?

[Jan Mbali]

Originally Posted by nnyhav

People willingly circumscribe themselves, and their world, in various ways. Many don't even read (wait for the movie!). Most of those that do prefer nonfiction, and most of those remaining prefer nonliterature (see bestseller lists). For the minority of the minority, translation provides a more effective means of broadening horizons than does mastering other languages. We're spoilt for choice as it is.

If your mind is trained to integrate and make connections, and is equipped with a more or less organised world view and frames of reference with some grounding in world history and so on - then you can hoover up information from a myriad sources and form those coherent views. Fiction, the back of a Cornflakes packet, a fragment of conversation, a photo, a fact or two. But fiction does add something special and yeasty to the brew ...

[Beth]

Originally Posted by Jan Mbali

But fiction does add something special and yeasty to the brew ...

It's as close to magic as we get?

Elsewhere, The Scientific American's Take on Stories

Originally Posted by ScientificAmerican

But what could be the evolutionary advantage of being so prone to fantasy? “One might have expected natural selection to have weeded out any inclination to engage in imaginary worlds rather than the real one,” writes Steven Pinker, a Harvard University evolutionary psychologist, in the April 2007 issue of Philosophy and Literature. Pinker goes on to argue against this claim, positing that stories are an important tool for learning and for developing relationships with others in one’s social group. And most scientists are starting to agree: stories have such a powerful and universal appeal that the neurological roots of both telling tales and enjoying them are probably tied to crucial parts of our social cognition.

Or is this too wonky? Would the April '07 issue of Philosophy and Literature be worth peeking at or should I stay with Shirley Jackson? That question seems to answer itself.

[Jan Mbali]

Originally Posted by Beth

It's as close to magic as we get?

Elsewhere, The Scientific American's Take on Stories

Or is this too wonky? Would the April '07 issue of Philosophy and Literature be worth peeking at or should I stay with Shirley Jackson? That question seems to answer itself.

Not at all wonky - for me a newsih and intriguing idea. Perhaps equivalent of play to predators or a gymnast imagining a new routine before attempting it for the first time. Part of the process of learning (that bit I knew). Manifests physically through pathways forming in your brain. But like all such things, does not always work in a way that leads to evolutionary success. And we are social beings, so all that stuff comes into it, including via archetypes with deep roots in our shared culture and history. Exploited in all sort of nasty ways by baddies. Now part of it flows on the Net. Complex shit!

[Eric]

I'm not as negative about Britain and European fiction, as is Max in #39. I think that those of us that have insights into what is being written all over Europe can do more than sit down and cry.

In a world where, for instance, the EU has expanded exponentially regarding the international linkeage of politics and economics, where the Estonian President pops in to see the Queen (tomorrow, I think) and Iceland has caused a lot of trouble for the local authority finances of the UK, the Netherlands and elsewhere, fiction too could be internationalised. (I will avoid the word "globalised" as this nowadays has bad connotations.)

One reader, here or there, peering out of his window and the falling leaves of autumn (pathos), will make no difference whatsoever to the availability of translated fiction in Britain. That is why those readers, publishers, journos and others that do realise what's going on should rant, rant and rant again (to use a popular phrase from these threads). Concerted effort is the only kind of effort that counts. Most people think "it's only me that thinks this way". But often, many others agree, but are not organised.

I'm a bit too right-wing nowadays to sing the praises of revolution, but all these weasel words of "solidarity", "awareness-raising", "organising", and so on, could be given a new lease of life in the modest field of literature. If people don't know something exists, they don't miss it.

Whether people willingly circumcise themselves, as my colleague Nnyhav (of "ranting" fame) opines, you can kick them in the balls (or tits; I am not sexist) occasionally and tell them they're missing out on well-crafted novels and short-stories from the rest of the world (plus a load of rubbish written in the same languages out there, too).

I subscribe to the old adage: "where there's a will, there's a way". If I find others who agree that there should be more translations in Britain, I'm glad. Fine. If not, I will rant on.

Translation is not a minority activity, like SM or bee-keeping. It's the only way to read novels not written in English. Period. Let's not get too cerebral about the philosophy of the psychology of the sociology of translation, as a concept. We just have to get publishers to see that translations will sell, if people know they exist. Money, dangled in front of the nose of a publisher, is a great incentive. There are funds for this purpose, as BlogSpy tells us now about Abu Dhabi and Arabic literature.

You can argue amongst yourselves about the theory of translation; I'm just going to get on with it, when my next contract, with payment promised, comes through.

[nnyhav]

Ranting about ranting now? how meta ... and all around, too, could call it circumventing ...

Kicking against the pricks isn't much of a prescription for relief, esp amongst those largely in agreement about ends if not means.

[Stewart]

Originally Posted by Eric

If I find others who agree that there should be more translations in Britain, I'm glad. Fine. If not, I will rant on.

Please, not here. Like others have found, the sheer repetition is getting tiresome. The same opinions spread from thread to thread like a poison. Why not create a thread that addresses, once and for all, with these issues rather than repeat yourself ad infinitum?

Sure, the majority of Brits and Americans don't read translated works. There's no requirement to. They just read what they want to read, if they read at all, with some preferring to follow the provisions of Oprah or Richard & Judy. Big deal! Their loss.

As nnyhav says, "Kicking against the pricks isn't much of a prescription for relief, esp amongst those largely in agreement". We all know attitudes to translations in English speaking countries are non-existent to woeful so there's little reason to waste breath telling those in the know already.

I do realise that we are coming to it from different angles, where, for the majority, reading is a worthwhile use of our time, translation or otherwise; whereas for you, translation is your bread and butter and so a heightened demand for Estonian literature would pay the bills.

My concern is that the incessant repetition is not attractive and, more importantly, not necessary. I'm sure people come to read others' thoughts on books that they may not find discussed on other sites, to pick up recommendations, or maybe to expand their literary palate, amongst other reasons. I'm certain they don't come to have the Brit's woeful translation record served up repeatedly. If anything, it's a disincentive to drop by.

[esnc]

Fiction is the lifeblood of the everyday grind.

Men and women wake up each day, and toil and sweat and stress over their working lives. And many people feel that the magic of living dies when youth is left behind.

I am lucky enough to know the truth, and understand fiction and its importance in my past and in my future. And I watch as it molds the world around me.

Fiction is a revolution that stands against the decaying forces of time. It re-invents itself with each generation. It unites, it diversifies, and it brings beauty into a forlorn and sometimes sad place that we call our mind. Fiction tickles our hearts and souls. We are the empty cup, and fiction is drink that fills us.

To be a writer is to be a creator. A writer crafts a world, and as we turn the page in his book we are turning a key in the lock to a door in his creation. Writers, builders of great things, guides into the unknown, super heroes, they can create and share anything that they imagine.

With fiction I found the neverland inside myself. The feeling of setting my feet onto the floor each day is the adventure. My world is written by the pen, and through my adolescent explorations of worlds, that some call fiction, I learned that each day is what you make it.

I live in a brave new world. I buy brilliance with hard work and years of experience. I tip my hat to the fiction that I own, the fiction that I built myself with, and I wait for the adventure on the horizon.

[Jan Mbali]

ESNC is lyrical about fiction and subjectively we all have feelings of that sort. An alternative way of looking it, to quote somebody or other, is that when it rains shit culture is often the only umbrella available. Does anyone know who said that?

The youth are often impatient with culture. As Brecht puts it, in dark times even a conversation about trees seems to be a crime as it leaves unspoken so much about so many misdeeds. How much more a poem about trees. In "To those who came after" he wrote "We looked at nature with indifference" and "We loved carelessly" . Now natue is kicking baclk and we are fucked if we dont put back those same trees. And to love carelessly means you have a death wish and perhaps a lack of respect for yourself and some others.

When a radical student I caste scorn on a fellow South African exile who was studying drama. He became a brilliant and successful actor, director and writer. I, a student of almsot useless sociology, for god's sake, gradually became aware that culture and values (and good food, company, healthy communities of people) is what makes it all worth while. And imagination and creativity, including as expressed through fiction, is the living heart of the culture that defines our values.

Is this a rant?

[titania7]

Originally Posted by Jan Mbali

ESNC is lyrical about fiction and subjectively we all have feelings of that sort. An alternative way of looking it, to quote somebody or other, is that when it rains shit culture is often the only umbrella available. Does anyone know who said that?

The youth are often impatient with culture. As Brecht puts it, in dark times even a conversation about trees seems to be a crime as it leaves unspoken so much about so many misdeeds. How much more a poem about trees. In "To those who came after" he wrote "We looked at nature with indifference" and "We loved carelessly" . Now natue is kicking baclk and we are fucked if we dont put back those same trees. And to love carelessly means you have a death wish and perhaps a lack of respect for yourself and some others.

When a radical student I caste scorn on a fellow South African exile who was studying drama. He became a brilliant and successful actor, director and writer. I, a student of almsot useless sociology, for god's sake, gradually became aware that culture and values (and good food, company, healthy communities of people) is what makes it all worth while. And imagination and creativity, including as expressed through fiction, is the living heart of the culture that defines our values.

Is this a rant?

Jan Mbali,
Maybe. But I agree with nearly everything you say--and
admire the sentiments behind the words.

Thank you.


~Titania



"Although human life is priceless, we always
act as if something had an even greater
price than life....

But what is that something?"
~Antoine de Saint-Exupery

[nnyhav]

Originally Posted by Jan Mbali

As Brecht puts it, in dark times even a conversation about trees seems to be a crime as it leaves unspoken so much about so many misdeeds. How much more a poem about trees.

Speaking of misdeeds, I am reminded of the Shelley Berman routine where at a cocktail party, someone brought up James Joyce ...

And I asked, "Didn't he write 'Trees'"?
Someone said, "No, that was Joyce Kilmer."
And I said "Who is she?" and made a complete fool of myself ...

oh yes and Ogden Nash's takeoff thereon:

I think that I shall never see
A billboard lovely as a tree.
Perhaps, unless the billboards fall,
I'll never see a tree at all.

PS: let a simile be your umbrella ...

[Sybarite]

Originally Posted by Jan Mbali

<snip>

Very well expressed, Jan. Very well expressed indeed.

Makes me put the pleasure of fiction together with the pleasure of friendships and of good food and of visiting galleries and going to the theatre etc, as being the things the make life worthwhile.

Generally speaking, it seems to be raining shit now, a lot of the time. You're right – culture is a damned valuable umbrella, in a world that sometimes seems to be dominated by 'reality' TV, soap operas, Z-list celebrities and so forth.

[Aiculik]

Interesting...

while I love reading and it is important for me, I cannot read while I'm really down, depressed or angry. Somehow everything seems too irritating.

When it's raining shit, I need all my concentration to find my strenght and will to overcome it. In such times I don't want to read about other people's fictional fates and problems. I want someone to hear out my problems - my real problems here and now. When I feel dried and empty, no art can help and fill me. All words seem empty, all art seem stiff and false.

Only when I find my answers, when I manage to find some sense of the world and my life in it again, I am able to read again. Because only then I am able to see beauty in it, only then I'm willing to try to understand it...

[nnyhav]

via lit saloon, Alexander McCall Smith: Lost in Fiction | WSJ