Is Scandinavian literature gloomy?

[Eric]

I read on another thread somewhere that Scandinavian literature tends to be gloomy, depressing, or dark. I wonder whether this is because Scandinavian authors sit brooding in log cabins wondering whether to commit suicide, or to murder someone and then write a crime novel about it; or whether this has something to do with typecasting and selective translation.

Scandinavian children's books, such as those by Astrid Lindgren and Tove Jansson are certainly not morbid, though Jansson does the occasional gesture towards a doom-laden atmosphere. Jansson's stories for adults are certainly not gloomy; they are in fact quite life-enhancing. The open sea and the skerries are not a setting for gloom.

Strindberg was the antithesis of gloomy. He was angry, provocative and so on. A satirist in his prose. But even during his Inferno Crisis, he would rage rather than brood. And his late plays bring reconciliation, not a resigned morbidity.

I think that if people switched off their gloom-detectors and read more widely, they would discover that Scandinavia has quite a broad range of moods in the various national literatures represented there. There are also, quite at random, the zaniness of Kandre and Edelfeldt; the legends of Lagerl?f; the dystopia of Boye; the books by Paasilinna; the everyday stories by Grytten; the sci-fi of Ajvide Lindqvist; fay poetry by Byggm?star; the Communist-Socialist poets such as ?gren, Diktonius, Wichman; the provocateur Donner; the leading Jewish literary critic Brandes; the gay and social critical novels of Kihlman; the "hack?d him in pieces smaw" aspect of the sagas, etc., etc.

If you focus on Ingmar Bergman the filmmaker, you can slant your perception of him depending on whether you look at earlier films, such as "Shame" and "The Silence" or the rumbustuous epic "Fanny and Alexander".

And if you read only a strict diet of Lagerkvist, Borgen, maybe Vesaas, Bj?rneboe, M?rne, Dagerman, then watch a series of early Bergman films, you could certainly convince yourself that Scandinavia is cold, ice-bound, deeply depressed and depressing. But would you be doing the region justice?

[accidie]

Ah, but I adore gloom. I recently read and enjoyed Kihlman's Downfall of Gert Bladh, and hope to get Jersild's After the Flood soon. Can you recommend similarly bleak, lesser-known Scandinavian writing in English translation?

[Johan]

Maybe slightly more gloomy than the literature of most other regions of the world, but I wouldn't call it our defining characteristic.

[hdw]

I read on another thread somewhere that Scandinavian literature tends to be gloomy, depressing, or dark.

Wasn't the post about the current taste of both British publishers and the reading public in general for sadistic Scandinavian crime thrillers, something that always gets you into a fine old lather? Who apart from specialist Scandinavianists know most of the other writers you mention?

There's no question that the crime genre in Scandinavia generally is incredibly dark and depressing even by the normal standards of crime thrillers. There doesn't seem to be a Scandinavian Agatha Christie or P.D. James who bumps people off with a bit of decorum and not too much blood or other messiness. On the contrary, the likes of Mankell and Fossum and Nesb? and Indri?ason seem to revel in nastiness, and none of them have created top detectives who paint tasteful watercolours or publish slim books of verse (or write haikus like the new president of Europe).

I suppose the darkest writer in that genre that we have in the UK is Ruth Rendell, and she's half-Swedish.

Harry

[Flower]

Funny you use the word gloomy, Eric!

I tend to think that the image you have in your head of some blond lonely Scandinavian writer living alone in the woods is more likely an existentialist than a poor guy becoming gloomy or depressing in his solitude. After all S?ren Kierkegaard was a Dane and is said to be the father of existentialism. And I think that the Norweigan painter Edward Munch, writers like Strindberg, Bergman, Hamsun and not least S?derberg all seem to have this existentialism in them...

I also seem to find that the drama in the books are often more subtle or the built up in a subtle way...after all we are not passionate Italians or Spanish people.

About crimewriters, I dont read many of them but have 3 new Danish crime books that Im going to review. All of them are translated into German. Ditte Birkemose, Therese Philipsen and Kaaberb?l & Friis. I have read 2 different Swedish crime female writers but got bored very fast as it seems to be the same thing happening over and over again.
If you like international agent crimestories, then Danish Leif Davidsen has written a few okay books. He used to work for the national tv living in Moscow, Russia, so he knows a thing or two about Russia.

Danish Erling Jepsen has a dark sense of humour even though he deals with difficult matters. He has been translated into German as well and has a new book out.

[Liam]

If you focus on Ingmar Bergman the filmmaker, you can slant your perception of him depending on whether you look at earlier films, such as "Shame" and "The Silence" or the rumbustuous epic "Fanny and Alexander".

Fanny and Alexander is a one-of-a-kind film, both in Bergman's highly unique body of work and Scandinavian cinema in general (although Lasse Hallstrom's Mitt Liv som Hund is also quite, quite sweet).

Speaking of doom and gloom in cinema, you need to check out Lukas Moodysson's A Hole in My Heart. (Good luck finding a good therapist afterwards). Moodysson is quite [ahem] moody.

[Eric]

Harry is quite right: no one but the Scandinavianists will know half the names I mentioned. But that is the fault of the Scandinavians themselves in not breaking through, and indeed the publishers in Britain and the USA for finding it so hard to discover Scandinavian literature that does not involved brooding, suicide, or sadistic murder.

I don't get into a lather; I want to help change this impasse, by translating some novels, etc., myself. But you do, of course, have to find a willing publisher first. I'm not going to translate whole novels for my desk drawer. (I only have one such novel, one that I translated in a bout of enthusiasm, and no one wanted.)

Most of the names I mentioned in the first posting here have had something of theirs translated into English. With the exception, perhaps, of Eva-Stina Byggm?star and Eva Wichman. Because Ajvide Lindqvist and Grytten have had novels recently translated into English, the former a sci-fi-ish dystopia, the latter a crime novel, but one without completely loony axe-weilding psychopaths. And the rest are older, most quite established.

I am not a great fan of crime novels, but Flower does hint at something: if the Germans can translate these three Danish authors, has anything by them appeared in English?

Liam, I'm well up on earlyish Bergman. In the spring of 1972, only a few years after Bergman produced some of his masterpieces, I helped a student friend who had set up a Bergman film season at the University of East Anglia, Norwich, England. Obviously there was little to do on the campus of this university, because on the first night, a Thursday in April, there was a huge queue waiting to see the first film of the season, which was "The Seventh Seal". On following Thursdays we showed the films twice. These included "Shame", "The Silence", "The Hour of the Wolf", "Persona", "Wild Strawberries", "The Virgin Spring", "So Close To Life", "A Passion", "Through a Glass, Darkly", "Sawdust and Tinsel", and maybe a couple more. In other words, most of his masterpieces up to date. I would still love to see most of these films again.

This was the background to our poster, a key scene from "Persona". My friend always fancied Bibi Andersson; I, Liv Ullman:

[Liam]

I would still love to see most of these films again.

Eric, do yourself a favor and get a DVD player, . You can later buy the restored versions of some of these films in pristine high-definition transfers.

P. S. Wild Strawberries is my favorite Ingmar Bergman film, as well as one of my favorite films ever.

[Liam]

Sorry, when it comes to Bergman, I just cannot resist:

...

...

[Bjorn]

I'm not sure if it was my post on Per Petterson's I Curse The River Of Time, in which I (jokingly) called Scandinavians "somber", that set off Eric's latest lecture. But yes, generally speaking, I do think there's something to it. Obviously, dismissing it all as "gloom" (I think it was in a recent panel on crime literature that a British critic dismissed all Scandinavian crime fiction as being written by Turgid Gloomsdottir) is a gross oversimplification. But yes, in a lot of fiction - whether written, filmed or played - there is an underlying sense of melancholy that, at least to me, seems to carry something particular Scandinavian about it. This doesn't in any way mean it can't be humorous, life-affirming or rich in other moods, that should go without saying; but... Eric mentioned Paasilinna, probably the most successful Scandinavian humour writer of recent years; well, his breakthrough novel is about a few dozen people deciding to commit suicide together. And it's funny. John Ajvide Lindqvist's (very good) supernatural horror novels rest entirely on a fairly pessmistic and realist take on everyday life. I could keep coming up with examples, but the point is: in Scandinavian fiction, gloom doesn't necessarily equal doom.

[saliotthomas]

in Scandinavian fiction, gloom doesn't necessarily equal doom.

Very well said Bjorn.
I'll add Mika Waltari as a a counter exemple, The egyptian is quite funny and light even if A stranger came to the farm is terribly dark.

Talking of gloomy, what about Russian literature in general? Dostoievsky , Gogol, Turgeniev ,or even Tolstoi (i'm not adding Soljenitsyne or we'll get the refrain about communisme) are not exactly light and funny noveliste.

[hdw]

Fanny and Alexander is a one-of-a-kind film, both in Bergman's highly unique body of work and Scandinavian cinema in general (although Lasse Hallstr?m's Mitt Liv som Hund is also quite, quite sweet).
L.

I watched Fanny and Alexander with some anticipation, having read all the hype about how light and humorous and un-gloomy it was, and my God, only by comparison with his earlier films could you say it was light and un-gloomy. The psychological bullying of the kids by the clergyman stepfather is just about unbearable, in my recollection.

When I went to Sweden to teach in 1970, my parents were a bit concerned about what I was letting myself in for, knowing nothing about this strange northern land. So when a Swedish film was shown on TV they decided to watch it, just to get a flavour of Sweden. Apparently it turned out to be about the school class from hell who bullied their unfortunate teacher to the point of suicide. So it didn't make them feel too much better.

After I came back to Blighty in 1972, and people found out that I had been in Sweden, they used to ask me if it was really like an Ingmar Bergman film there. To which, hand on heart, I was able to reply, Bergman's films aren't fiction, they are absolutely truthful documentaries. I had landed in a Bergman film-script myself in Sweden, by an inadvisable relationship with a beautiful but psychologically disturbed girl from a dysfunctional middle-class family riddled with divorce and alcoholism and marital discord, so my time in Sweden was rather different from that of most of my British teacher colleagues, although admittedly I learned Swedish a lot quicker and more thoroughly than most of them did, partly through holding my own with her crazy family, including her mother and her alcoholic ex-stepfather, who moved out of his flat in Link?ping for us, then kept phoning, and his ex-wife's current lover (who was separated from his wife in Malm?) and her constantly rowing grandparents, whose country cottage we used to stay in, and not to forget my weekly chats with her clinical psychologist in the local psychiatric unit. Happy days!

Harry

[hdw]

Funny you use the word gloomy, Eric!
About crimewriters, I dont read many of them but have 3 new Danish crime books that Im going to review. All of them are translated into German. Ditte Birkemose, Therese Philipsen and Kaaberb?l & Friis. I have read 2 different Swedish crime female writers but got bored very fast as it seems to be the same thing happening over and over again.
If you like international agent crimestories, then Danish Leif Davidsen has written a few okay books. He used to work for the national tv living in Moscow, Russia, so he knows a thing or two about Russia.

Danish Erling Jepsen has a dark sense of humour even though he deals with difficult matters. He has been translated into German as well and has a new book out.

I'm grateful for those names you mention, as I have sometimes wondered why there are no Danes represented among the Scandinavian thriller writers raking in the loot from the English-language market. It's interesting that they are getting translated into German but not into English.

I've read Leif Davidsen's Lime's Photograph, and more recently Mikkel Birkegaard's The Library of Shadows, which is in the sub-genre of spooky old libraries with magic books in them.

I'm going through a phase of reading Leif Panduro novels, mainly to keep up my Danish.

Harry

[Daniel del Real]

I wonder whether this is because Scandinavian authors sit brooding in log cabins wondering whether to commit suicide, or to murder someone and then write a crime novel about it; or whether this has something to do with typecasting and selective translation.

Is this how you imagine our good friend Bjorn?

[Eric]

Don't worry, Liam, I have access to DVD equipment. But I never get round to borrowing-buying-watching. I've seen most of the films from which you have clipped the stills. And, given time, energy and mood, I will rewatch, at leisure. I like the photos, but did you have to add that funny old bald bloke in the specs, at the end?

I've seen both the short and long version of "Fanny and Alexander". The fact that such things exist may have been forgotten by now. But it was a great epic, with tragedy, melodrama, and horror, as well as humour. Such a blend is the sign of a great artist.

Along with Tarkovsky, Bergman remains my favourite film director. But "Shame" was the most depressing film I have ever seen. What I especially appreciated about Bergman was, for instance, that little wonderful scene at the very end of "Fanny and Alexander" where the mother and daughter discuss "that old misogynist's" new play "A Dream Play". A sentence from the prologue is quoted, about the nature of theatre. That reference to Strindberg's ultimate reconciliation with life was a marvellous way to end. The Schumann theme tune was also a stroke of genius.

Yes, Bj?rn, it was your mention of Per Pettersson's book that triggered off my thoughts about Nordic gloom-laden vistas. I'm just puzzled by the way that Scandinavia is not only typecast, but ignored, unless their scribes start producing what "the rest of the world wants" which, right now, is crime novels.

I've not read enough John Ajvide Lindqvist yet. But he looks promising. At least he hasn't got a wife called Alexandra Ajvide Lindqvist, with whom he writes pseudonymous stuff in order to boost the reputation of the dynamic duo...

I see that Harry can vouch for the nuttiness of provincial Swedish families with a bit of money, status in the community, and alcoholic crackpottitude in the genes. The interesting thing is that over the past several decades, the Social Democrats, who have dominated the political scene for a very long time, tried to convince foreigners that Sweden was the classless People's Home, where all class distinctions had been eradicated. Ha, ha, ha! Have you ever looked out of the window of the ferry to Finland at how the Swedish rich have the hugest of huge villas on islets in the eastern skerries, off Stockholm, while the immigrants are penned in, living in soulless blocks of flats in Gottsunda, Botkyrka, Flemingsberg, and other dormitory districts of big cities? Strindberg would have written about this with gusto.

[Flower]

I'm grateful for those names you mention, as I have sometimes wondered why there are no Danes represented among the Scandinavian thriller writers raking in the loot from the English-language market. It's interesting that they are getting translated into German but not into English.

I've read Leif Davidsen's Lime's Photograph, and more recently Mikkel Birkegaard's The Library of Shadows, which is in the sub-genre of spooky old libraries with magic books in them.

I'm going through a phase of reading Leif Panduro novels, mainly to keep up my Danish.

Harry

You are welcome, Harry!

Publishers over here have told me that first a danish novel is translated into Swedish and Norweigan, then German. Its like they first get translated into the mainland of Europe's languages before the English/American publishers give in and get them.

On this site, you can find some books and look up to see when and what languages they are translated into: DanishLiterature.info
-but be aware its not completely updated.

I have just checked that Erling Jepsen has also been translated into Dutch and Spanish!

Another author which has been translated into German and French is Merete Pryds Helle. She is apparently very popular in France. I have her latest novel and shall do a review later on. Its rather interesting as it has do with archeological diggings in the desert and the time when man became man etc. The author has as part of her master degree done some archeological study herself and she speaks fluently French. She has written many novels but it new to me, so Im looking forward to make this aquiantance.

Villy S?rensen a very interesting Danish philosopher has been translated into several language, also English. From the website I can see some of his work in English, German, Spanish, Bulgarian, Czech, Estonian, French, Greek and Italian.

Klaus Rifbjerg has been translated into English, German, French, Spanish, Italian, Albanian, Czech, Polish, Slovakian, Slovenian. I know of him but havent actually read himself. He has a special sense of humour and is somewhat critical of society etc. so he is in the media a lot.

Dorrit Willumsen has also been translated into English, German, French, Spanish, Dutch, Czech, Estonian, Latvian and Polish. I have read her long time ago and enjoyed her work.

Helle Helle has been translated into German, Dutch, Czech, Estonian. She has won some literature award if Im correct, but Im afraid I havent read her yet. Bjorn has though and liked her.

Ib Michael has been translated into English, French, German, Italian, Spanish, Portugeuse, Dutch, Estonian, Finnish and Hebrew. I have read some of his books. He writes about travelling in the sense of developing as human being and use magical stuff as well, a bit like some of the authors from South America. So magical, travelling and fairytale like and not at all gloomy, I would say.

Carsten Jensen stands out as he has not been translated into German, but English, Spanish, Italian, Dutch, Finnish and Polish. I have read his first couple of novels and enjoyed them very much. He started out as a journalist on one of our national newspapers and then began writing books about his travels. Not ordinary books, but with a lot of though about why we are like we are and how people live in other countries, they are novels, not non-fictions. I think he is a great writer. Havent read his latest novel yet. Not gloomy at all but with some after thought in them.

Last but not least, Jakob Ejersbo! His first novel "Nordkraft" was a huge success and made into a film, starring Thure Lindhardt, and the novel has been translated into English, German, Dutch, Estonian and Finnish. He is a great writer and before he died he had written a triologi about Africa. The triologi has received high praise by every reporter and Im sure that it will translated into several languages as well.

I have just mentioned these authors as some I could think of on top of my lungs, but Im sure there are many more.

By the way, the language Leif Panduro used is rather old fashion now. I grew up with his books being made into films/dramas and shown on tv.

[Flower]

Liam,
Are you sure you were not living in Scandinavia in another life?

I see your love for Bergman and I would highly recommed the children books by Tove Jansson to you! They are so wonderfull and with danger, fun and strange characters. You will love them!

Amazon.com: moomin

If you can, get hold of the old cartoon versions, not the new ones. My son who is 20 yrs old, is still scared of some of those strange characters in Tove Jansson's books.

I also noticed you take a fancy in some author with blondish hair and blue eyes. Over here in Denmark, we have lots of them walking around, and many of them being gay.
-and Denmark was the first country in the world to have gay marriages!

I reckon you would feel like you were in paradise, if you was to come for a holieday!

[Flower]

Speaking of films, Im sure you all know of Lars von Trier, but we do have some other filmmakers.

Like Lone Scherfig:
Amazon.com: lone scherfig

Her film "Italian for beginners" is rather funny in a subtle special way.

Nicolas Winding-Refn:
Amazon.com: nicolas winding refn

His films are about drugs, violence, action etc.

Thomas Vinterberg:
Amazon.com: Thomas vinterberg

His film "The celebration" got worldwide attention and was made into a play all over the world.
I really liked his film "Dear Wendy" which also was praised at the Sundance film festival. And then of course there is "Its all about love"

Susanne Bier:
Amazon.com: susanne bier

Her films are dramas about love, relationships etc. I enjoyed some of them, like "After the wedding", "Things we lost in the fire" and "Open hearts".

Jannik Johansen:
Amazon.com: stealing rembrandt - DVD: Movies & TV

This film is hilarious! Its based on real life happenings. A group of loosers actually stole a real Rembrandt in Denmark and not really knowing what they got their hands on. Its one of those occasions that makes you think "this cannot be true, no one is that stupid" and then laugh.....

Natasha Arthy:
Amazon.com: natasha arthy - DVD: Movies & TV

I havent seen this film of hers which you can get on amazon but it was praised a lot.

Paprika Steen is an actoress but she has received a lot good reviews and won several film prizes all over the world for her role in her latest film "Applaus":
Amazon.com: paprika steen - DVD: Movies & TV

The film "Applaus" has only just hit the cinema so its not yet avaible as DVD. She has directed the film "Aftermath" which was a great but sad film.

Ole Bornedal:
Amazon.com: Ole Bornedal - DVD: Movies & TV

He has made some great films and if you like Scandinavian gloom, then "I am Dina" is the thing for you.

Okay, that was just some of the danish filmmakers which are shown all over the world. You will see that some of our filmmakers have worked with the big stars, like Claire Danes, Halle Berry, Sean Penn etc. And some of you will notice and problably recognize some of our actors from English/American films, like Thure Lindhardt, Mads Mikkelsen, Nikolai Lie Kaas, Ulrik Thomsen, Jesper Christensen, Nikolaj Coster-Waldau etc.

Here is a link, where you can look up danish directors and their work, in english:
https://secure.koda.dk/FILM/DISP

[hdw]

Paprika Steen sounds as if she would bring some colour and a dash of spice to her roles. She ought to be Hungarian, not Danish.

Harry

[Liam]

Liam, Are you sure you were not living in Scandinavia in another life?

That must be it, girlfriend, that must be it! Perhaps I was once Anita Ekberg's bar of soap or something...

I see your love for Bergman and I would highly recommed the children books by Tove Jansson to you! They are so wonderfull and with danger, fun and strange characters.

In that case, you won't be disappointed to find out that not only have I read, but that I also own all of them. The one about the comet is my favorite of the bunch!

If you can, get hold of the old cartoon versions, not the new ones. My son who is 20 yrs old, is still scared of some of those strange characters in Tove Jansson's books.

I'll try to locate some of them; let's see if Netflix has 'em!

I also noticed you take a fancy in some author with blondish hair and blue eyes. Over here in Denmark, we have lots of them walking around, and many of them being gay. -and Denmark was the first country in the world to have gay marriages. I reckon you would feel like you were in paradise, if you was to come for a holieday!

I thought we ALL liked blue-eyed blondes, but perhaps I'm being delusional. But you've managed to convince me: as soon as my b/f dumps me for someone else, I'm booking a flight to one of these queer Scandinavian paradises where blue-eyed, fair-haired hunks are the norm, not the exception!


See you then,
L