Witold gets his own back

[Eric]

You may be wondering (or not) why I have suddenly chosen an avatar. Well, it's a long story, going back some 35 years.

When I was an undergrad at UEA, I used to sometimes sit with postgrads on the turquoise cushions of the lounge bar (the posher of the two) on the Plain at UEA (for any of you that know that university). When browsing in the university library, I had discovered works by Witold Gombrowicz, maybe after the play Princess Iwona was staged in the Village.

The postgrads were all boasting about Musil and Trakl (whom someone called Trikl-Trakl in that witless university student way). I tried to boast that I'd found an interesting author: Witold Gombrowicz. But the intellectuals were not ready for it. I was a mere undergraduate. How could such a person discover anything?

The postgrad Steve Giles (now a lecturer at Nottingham University) started teasing me and calling me "Witold" - i.e. Gombrowicz' first name - as a bit of a put-down, pronouncing the "w" in the English way.

So, 35 years later, this is the revenge of the translator of postmodernist novels from the Estonian that I have subsequently become.

[nnyhav]

Just your way of saying "Witold you so"

(those cushions have anything to do with the Turquoise Prize?)

[Eric]

Must be subconscious with those cushions. Curiously, as I mentioned in reply to one of Irene's postings, the person who now heads the Anthony Powell Society was sitting in that same lounge bar during those days of student ribaldry, though I don't think I ever spoke to him. The whole geography of the two bars at UEA has been totally altered, but I remember that in those days my two drinks of choice were 1) Black Label lager; 2) Adnams Bitter (known as 'Ad-a-Piss locally). I was past the cider stage, and hadn't yet discovered wine.

[Irene Wilde]

I was past the cider stage, and hadn't yet discovered wine.

Let us know when you get to the martini stage.

[Eric]

Good point, Irene. I had a spell when I drank Martini, years ago. I don't remember when. Also, when living in a depressing place in Sweden, I was on the port for several months. But now I mostly drink ros? wine, or the Belgian beer called Westmalle Tripel. (No, not both at once! I have learnt the hard way what mixing drinks can mean. The grain and the grape, and all that.)

[fausto]

Good choice! (The Westmalle, not the ros?.)

[Irene Wilde]

Good point, Irene. I had a spell when I drank Martini, years ago. I don't remember when. Also, when living in a depressing place in Sweden, I was on the port for several months. But now I mostly drink ros? wine, or the Belgian beer called Westmalle Tripel. (No, not both at once! I have learnt the hard way what mixing drinks can mean. The grain and the grape, and all that.)

I got to the martini stage and stopped.

[Eric]

I reproduce this from the Witold Gombrowicz thread, as it really belongs here:

When I opened my copy of Ferdydurke just now, I found a rather crumpled invitation addressed to "Witold Dickens" where the postgrads I mentioned earlier invited me and others to what was termed a "Garden Party Extravaganza", i.e. glasses of self-supplied white wine on a lawn. I'm afraid I have no recollection whatsoever of the party, if indeed I ever went. But it's the thought that counts, even 33 years later. This event of no consequence was planned for Tuesday 17th June 1975 "on the lawn between the Barn and the river at 3.30 p.m.".

Fausto:

Ros? comes in many shapes and forms. It can be watery and light, or dark and almost strawberry flavoured. There are both sweetish and dryish types. Some of the absolute cheapest South African stuff you can get here in Holland, Kaapse Vreugd, and the more expensive Chilean Undurraga, are good. The French Listel isn't what it was. But I find that even the one-litre plonk bottles of ros? are better than their price-equivalents for white and red.

Times have changed politically. No one would have been seen dead drinking South African or Chilean wine 20-30 years ago.

As for Belgian beers, we could start a whole thread devoted to them. They mostly come in three types: blond, dark and tripel. I tend to drink the tripel, but the blond if I'm thirsty, the dark in winter. Belgium has a fabulous beer culture as does, nowadays, Sweden, believe it or not. I've not drunk very much German beer, although that is the world's biggest beer country. Swedish beer was awful 30 years ago when I first visited: mostly insipid canned lager. But with the liberation of the brewery rules recently, whole new ranges of real ales have blossomed. If I hadn't beer-browsed in the Systembolaget alcohol monopoly shop in Stockholm and Visby this year, and spent time in the Man in the Moon pub in Stockholm, I would not have believed this sea change either.

[Mirabell]

Good choice! (The Westmalle, not the ros?.)

indeed. ros?! may I report my indignation.

[saliotthomas]

Good choice! (The Westmalle, not the ros?.)

There is the same snobisme with wine as there is with books.Ros? would come in the same as crime or fantasy.A notch under white.Personnaly i love great wine but also simple nice table wine from ,let say val de loire,or a honest cote du rhone rather than a fancy beaujolais.As well as that there is,like in literature, so many connaisseur with the same picturesque jargon.For my part i think i can very well classify wine,like books,with those 5 stars but not much more,bad,mediocre,average,good,excellent and ok maybe supreme but that's it.
We were talking about Holiday book and i must say that a ros? de provence in Provence under an olive three for a light lunch ,beat all the bourgone in the world.Like reading Cioran on a deck chair beside a pool would somewhat spoiles the mood.It is all a matter of circonstance and timing.

Sorry Stewart for i think you might have to creat a new thread with this slide(started a few post before)

BTW-My Avatar is Hubert Selby jr

[Mirabell]

a fancy beaujolais

yeah what's with the dicking around with the primeur anyways
doesn't taste particularly interesting
and is expensive as fuck
I like me a thick ballsy red btw.

[Sybarite]

... I've not drunk very much German beer, although that is the world's biggest beer country...

If you ever get the chance, there's a fabulous beer called Franziskaner, brewed in Munich, which can sometimes be found in bottles. It's superb stuff.

And I'd always recommend proper Budvar (the real Czech stuff), which is strong with a good taste.

Brits, by and large, accept (and pay vast amounts for) cooking lager full of chemicals. It amazes me what the big brewerys can get away with flogging British drinkers. I think that they brew it deliberately badly for the UK (often brewing it over here) and then laugh at our appalling lack of taste. Even Heineken tastes vastly better when consumed in Amsterdam.

As for wine, there's nothing wrong with a good Tempranillo. I also enjoy a dry Riesling when I have the chance.

[Irene Wilde]

If you ever get the chance, there's a fabulous beer called Franziskaner, brewed in Munich, which can sometimes be found in bottles. It's superb stuff.

And I'd always recommend proper Budvar (the real Czech stuff), which is strong with a good taste.

Brits, by and large, accept (and pay vast amounts for) cooking lager full of chemicals. It amazes me what the big brewerys can get away with flogging British drinkers. I think that they brew it deliberately badly for the UK (often brewing it over here) and then laugh at our appalling lack of taste. Even Heineken tastes vastly better when consumed in Amsterdam.

As for wine, there's nothing wrong with a good Tempranillo. I also enjoy a dry Riesling when I have the chance.

Syb, ever seen what passes for beer in America? In the news recently, a Belguim concerned just perhaps All-American brand Budweiser. They assured the American beer-drinking public that they would not tamper with the recipe.

[Eric]

Thanks, Sybarite, for a glimpse of German beer. I'm sure there is a huge field of discovery there for me. I'm afraid that the British image of German beer may still be tainted by people in beer gardens and at beerfests, drinking from huge Steiners and singing "Tomorrow belongs to me", as in "Cabaret".

It is sad that beer that is not left to finish brewing in the bottle, as the good Belgian ones are, often need chemicals to transport them vast distances, thus making profits for the brewers amongst an undiscerning public of piss artists who care naught for the taste.

The absurd thing is that those bottled beers such as Westmalle Tripel and many other tripels can be transported because they final gisting, whatever that is in technical brewery English, indeed occurs in the bottle as the lorries are juddering along the roads. After a little chance to calm down, with the sediment sinking to the bottom of the bottle, these are far superior to Heineken's and other dreadful beers - which give me a headache (as opposed to a hangover) on account of the chemicals.

Real Budvar from Česk? Budějovice is good. It's a bit confusing with an American brewery using the name as well. See:

Bud?jovick? Budvar - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

and

?esk? Bud?jovice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[fausto]

Thomas, there is nothing "fancy" in Beaujolais -- wine version of Am?lie Nothomb. I would put it in the same category as ros?, in that much of it is crap and it's difficult to find good ones (and indeed, Eric, Listel is not the nice thing it used to be to drink "under an olive tree for a light lunch". I actually think there are many light red wine that fit the bill better). C?te du Rhone is better in my eyes than Beaujolais, but give me a Bourgogne any fucking day.
And I love chilean wine and spanish wine (tempranillo syb was alluding to I guess).

[Eric]

I wonder what it is that people have against Am?lie Nothomb. I liked the humorous, tongue-in-cheek, mixture in the Robert book of the small girl's aspirations to become a success against all odds, ballet, the way she is treated by coevals and older people, etc. And the brevity of the book. I thought Nothomb was onto a good thing. If she goes on too much about Japan and anorexia, she could indeed become wearying, but she has style and pace, something many novelists have not. There is a kind of inverted Nothomb worship abroad, just like inverted snobbery.

Much of the supermarket "Beaujolais" I have bought in Holland is not worth the name, but one from Bully was OK. Trouble is, that once the winemakers sus that a particular brand is popular, I reckon they then start putting second-rate wine in the bottles, thinking that the plonk-swilling classes will not notice, but merely buy the bottle for the sheer snob value of the magic appellation "Beaujolais".

[saliotthomas]

Thomas, there is nothing "fancy" in Beaujolais -- wine version of Am?lie Nothomb. I would put it in the same category as ros?, in that much of it is crap and it's difficult to find good ones (and indeed, Eric, Listel is not the nice thing it used to be to drink "under an olive tree for a light lunch". I actually think there are many light red wine that fit the bill better). C?te du Rhone is better in my eyes than Beaujolais, but give me a Bourgogne any fucking day.
And I love chilean wine and spanish wine (tempranillo syb was alluding to I guess).

Another milles excuses Fausto but you caught me babbeling again(i shall invoke the heat as an excuse!)Of course there nothing fancy in Beaujolais,i was thinking Bordeaux.Finding a honest bordeaux not over priced nowday is a miracle.So after a few bad experiences,i avoid them altogheter,maybe in a few year,who knows.
From a familly of heavy wine drinkers (and a shame among them for my lake of palate)I must say that Ros? does not get much more consideration than coke.But living in very hot climat teach you one or two things about alcoholic beverage,and i swear to you that bourgone under certain latitudes taste like gravy.As would Ros? in cold climat taste like sweeten camel piss.
Sorry again the blunder,it actualy came to me the minute i fell asleep last night with a "quel con...." dieing on my lipses i passed.

[Mirabell]

If you ever get the chance, there's a fabulous beer called Franziskaner, brewed in Munich, which can sometimes be found in bottles. It's superb stuff.

And I'd always recommend proper Budvar (the real Czech stuff), which is strong with a good taste.

oi, franziskaner, so-called wei?bier. well. it's sweet and easy. "Girl's beer" I have heard it called. And indeed it was my entry into drinking beer.

Currently, due to moving to Bonn, I have taken a liking to K?lsch, the specialty here (as Wei?bier is a bavarian specialty). It ranges from beers like Fr?h, which is remarkably similar to Budweiser Budvar, to K?ppers, which is kinda close to 'regular' beer, i.e. pils.

Btw. Budweiser strong? Hell, what thin piss are you used to???

[Eric]

Witold would imagine that anyone who calls himself Mirabell would have a penchant for girl's beer...

Mirabooze, describe Bonn. I cannot imagine that this is an elaborate ruse, but your place of residence, Russian forebears, native-speaker level knowledge of the German language, und so weiter, aren't seen in their best light if you don't weave a thread of personal sincerity through your postings.

I remember Grauwolf and other people on previous book chatsites I inhabited, and as I try to be sincere about my book tastes, it would be awfully nice if people stopped the posing and started discussing for real. The degree of anonymity afforded on these book sites means that you can make up your personality as you go along without ever committing yourself to real life. Pessoa can get a bit boring in the end.

You can tell as many lies as you like, but if it all ends in disdain and superiority, without substance, people will weary of the whole charade. Or to put it a trifle more succinctly: stop acting the goat and discuss a few more books.

[Mirabell]

Witold would imagine that anyone who calls himself Mirabell would have a penchant for girl's beer...

Mirabooze, describe Bonn. I cannot imagine that this is an elaborate ruse, but your place of residence, Russian forebears, native-speaker level knowledge of the German language, und so weiter, aren't seen in their best light if you don't weave a thread of personal sincerity through your postings.

I remember Grauwolf and other people on previous book chatsites I inhabited, and as I try to be sincere about my book tastes, it would be awfully nice if people stopped the posing and started discussing for real. The degree of anonymity afforded on these book sites means that you can make up your personality as you go along without ever committing yourself to real life. Pessoa can get a bit boring in the end.

You can tell as many lies as you like, but if it all ends in disdain and superiority, without substance, people will weary of the whole charade. Or to put it a trifle more succinctly: stop acting the goat and discuss a few more books.

huh? what lies have I told?
I know what books I have discussed you cooky old man
see for yourself, and these are just the threads I opened myself:
http://www.worldliteratureforum.com/...?searchid=2604

seriously, what's wrong with you?