(Real) cases of exorcism.

[hdw]

Not directly related to the subject of this thread, but if you have a taste for the ghoulish and bizarre, check out Bizarre 'curse' crematorium protest - The Scotsman

for a peek at the n??stǫng or "stake of scorn" that someone has set up at Wairds Cemetery in Melrose, Scottish Borders, as a protest against plans to build the Borders' first crematorium there.

Whoever it was who did it, they obviously know their Old Norse lore. The Icelandic poet Egill Skalla-Gr?msson erected one of these things on an island off the Norwegian coast as a curse against his enemy King Eir?k Bloodaxe, as we read in Egilssaga Skallagr?mssonar:-

"Here I set up the stake of scorn, and I turn this scorn against King Eir?k and Queen Gunnhild ..."

Harry

[Loki]

First Bjorn is a guy, He is to this forum what John wayne is to western movie.

I'm sorry, it's difficult to tell sometimes. I'll remember from now on!

Another "case" of demon possession:
Real-life case of demon possession documented.

This seems too exaggerated!

[Daniel del Real]

I'm sorry, it's difficult to tell sometimes. I'll remember from now on!

Another "case" of demon possession:
Real-life case of demon possession documented.

This seems too exaggerated!

From now you can call him Bjorn Wayne, John Wayne's Swedish equivalent.

[Mirabell]

Another "case" of demon possession:
Real-life case of demon possession documented.

This seems too exaggerated!

Ya think? Rofl

[miercuri]

Now that i think about it, Liam could be possessed too.

yeah. by cuteness!

Awww, I thought you were referring to this :

[Daniel del Real]

Awww, I thought you were referring to this :

You guys are real funny lately

[e joseph]

So...this is the part of the forum where we choose moral sides on torturing mentally ill people to death? If I have to choose, I vote against.

[Jayaprakash]

^ Yes.

For what it's worth, the Vatican also employs an official Astronomer: God's Mechanics: Vatican Astronomer reconciles religion and science - Boing Boing

If I had a relative who had a mental disease, and I was the decision-maker, I would never approach an exorcist simply because I don't believe that their methods and beliefs make any sense. Psychiatrists, psychologists, neurologists, but no exorcists, thank you very much.

[Loki]

Nobody has said that they would call an exorcist. Probabli I've missed something.

[lenz]

True story:
In this very city, where I live, the police were called to deal with an apparent poultergeist (the kind of spirit that throws objects about in rooms). Of course the cops, who witnessed the phenomenon, could do nothing, so they called in a priest who performed an exorcism and the geist went away. So there!
Maybe the geist didn't like priests.

[lenz]

Anymore ghost stories? True ones of course, not fictional.

[Colette Jones]

If I had a relative who had a mental disease, and I was the decision-maker, I would never approach an exorcist simply because I don't believe that their methods and beliefs make any sense. Psychiatrists, psychologists, neurologists, but no exorcists, thank you very much.

Nobody has said that they would call an exorcist. Probabli I've missed something.

You're confusing me, Loki. You asked the question "What would you do?" which has been answered. I answered it but not to your liking (I think the question is irrelevant). Bjorn answered it too, but not to your liking (Bjorn said he would NOT do what these parents did). Is Jayaprakash's answer not what you were looking for?

Maybe you want to tell us what you would do?

[titania7]

If I had a relative who had a mental disease, and I was the decision-maker, I would never approach an exorcist simply because I don't believe that their methods and beliefs make any sense. Psychiatrists, psychologists, neurologists, but no exorcists, thank you very much.

I agree with you completely, JP. To even contemplate the idea of using exorcism as treatment for someone with a mental illness is inconceivable to me. It would be akin to taking someone with lung cancer to see a dentist.

For me, it is not helpful nor does it seem reasonable to incorporate mysticism, the supernatural, and theories about demonic possession into my religious belief system. I have a very scientific mind, and these things simply are not based in reality nor are they logical. That does not mean that everyone who believes in exorcism is depraved, for many of those who are
exorcists and who think exorcism is a viable experiment may simply be misguided. When people become desperate, they do tend to make unwise decisions and they may also explore alternatives that many of us would find it difficult to understand.

It is oftentimes easier to make judgments about another person's choices than it is to look honestly at the choices that you make within your own life. Moreover, until you are faced with a situation that is similar to a situation that the person whom you are judging is experiencing, it is not truly possible to know what you might or might not do.

All that being said, I am in no way justifying or defending the choices that were made by those who were instrumental in bringing about this young woman's death.

In this particular case, I honestly think that the girl's mother had mental issues. Moreover, the child was subjected to traumatic experiences growing up that would have left her with a completely dysfunctional self-concept. She felt that she must do penance for the sins of others as well as for her mother's perceived "sin" in having sex out of wedlock, an experience which produced an illegitimate sister who died at the age of 8 (if I remember correctly) as the result of having a kidney tumor removed.

I don't know if anyone has shared this link yet or not:

Emily Rose True Story of Anneliese Michel Exorcism - Real Story

What Roger Ebert has to say about the fictonalized facts presented in the film, "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" is also interesting. It seems that he feels that the psychosomatic effects of the exorcism might have actually helped Emily and feels that the drugs she was given were more to blame for her death than anything else.

The Exorcism of Emily Rose :: rogerebert.com :: Reviews


~Alexis


". . until we get to the point where we recognize the lack of compassion and kindness that we show the world, we will never be part of the change that the world needs to experience." ~Alexis Wingate~

[Loki]

You're confusing me, Loki. You asked the question "What would you do?" which has been answered. I answered it but not to your liking (I think the question is irrelevant). Bjorn answered it too, but not to your liking (Bjorn said he would NOT do what these parents did). Is Jayaprakash's answer not what you were looking for?

It's easy to say what one would not do. We all (me included) agree that we would not call an exorcist. I asked Bjorn that question not because I need a piece of advice, but because he seemed to know exactly what to do, he seemed to be an expert of this deseases with which we are perfectly familiar with. That's all.

Maybe you want to tell us what you would do?

As I hope you've understood from what I've written above, this is not the point. I honestly don't know what to do, and I will never know unless I have to face such a situation.

I would like to quote titania7:

When people become desperate, they do tend to make unwise decisions and they may also explore alternatives that many of us would find it difficult to understand.

I agree, and it's what I've been trying to say.

It is oftentimes easier to make judgments about another person's choices than it is to look honestly at the choices that you make within your own life. Moreover, until you are faced with a situation that is similar to a situation that the person whom you are judging is experiencing, it is not truly possible to know what you might or might not do.

Again, I perfectly agree here.

[Jayaprakash]

So you're basically saying, cut them some slack, they were stressed out?

As you will.

[titania7]

Personally, I do not think there is any way to justify the choices that were made in this particular case.

My observations about people doing things which seem incomprehensible because they are desperate did not directly pertain to this situation.

What is curious is that the girl herself thought that she was possessed.
I believe this small yet important detail as been overlooked. I haven't any idea how the so-called facts were presented in the film, but according to the first link I shared in my last post on this thread, Anneliese Michel was personally "convinced" that she possessed several demons, among them Adolf Hitler, Lucifer, Nero, and Judas Iscariot. It would sound to me as if she would have made a choice to be exorcised independent of the coercion of others. She also refused food and drink. While I agree that institutionalizing her and feeding her by force would have been a very sensible option, we still must admit that these choices I mention were, in fact, Anneliese's own. She was merely strongly supported in the choices she made.

~Alexis

[titania7]

Loki,
I must thank you for saying that you agreed with my statements. However, please understand that the thoughts that I expressed are really simply a reflection of my vantage point towards life. I strongly support the concept of not judging other people, for I believe that when we start judging and making assumptions and trying to guess reasons for why those around us do the things they do, we only help further the cycle of emotional pain and suffering that is already an overwhelming part of being human.

~Alexis

[miercuri]

As I hope you've understood from what I've written above, this is not the point. I honestly don't know what to do, and I will never know unless I have to face such a situation.

Don't get me wrong, but from what you've written it seems that you are not taking out the possibility of restorting to an exorcist. Is there really nothing that could convince you that this can't really be the good approach, regardless of the circumstances?

[Mirabell]

What Roger Ebert has to say about the fictionalized facts presented in the film, "The Exorcism of Emily Rose" is also interesting. It seems that he feels that the psychosomatic effects of the exorcism might have actually helped Emily and feels that the drugs she was given were more to blame for her death than anything else.

the court-appointed physicians apparently said that the prelude to the exocism and the discussion about possession had actually made it worse. (Anneliese Michel ? Wikipedia) But Roger Ebert must know better...

[Loki]

Don't get me wrong, but from what you've written it seems that you are not taking out the possibility of restorting to an exorcist.

Oh dear me! I would never call an exorcist. I do not believe in this stuff. I'll probably write in capital letters in my signature so that everyone can see and that nothing be misunderstood.


Anyway, has anybody understood if the exorcism sessions were considered harmful for Michel?