Norway loses its innocence

[Flower]

As for Glenn Beck, I did actually mention him back in #64, and called him an "idiot" there. But his nationality is not relevant. He's an idiot, but blaming him for being American is as daft as suggesting that all Norwegians are blond, blue-eyed psychopaths.

The was an interesting statistical analysis of the numbers of immigrants to Norway and their country of origin in Thursday's Le Figaro. I'll post up bits of it later.

We shouldn't go on an anti-right-wing crusade, if you'll excuse the expression, just because there are dangerous and even psychotic people who hold right-wing views. The are millions of conservatives with a small "c" who just want to live quiet lives, as there are social-democrats who wish to do the same.

I feel that it has definitely got to the stage where the newspapers are no longer simply reporting the events in Oslo and environs, but are now squeezing the story dry, at a time of year when there is not normally much to write about. This comment goes beyond the funerals and analysis, but keeps repeating things we know already. Even SvD, a perfectly respectable centre-right Swedish daily, is now obsessing. This is what we criticise the tabloids for, but even the quality papers are beginning to follow suit. We all want freedom and safety from mass murder. But by now we've got the message. The Norwegians themselves are in a different position as it is their country, their trauma - and their psychopath.

See my reply to Liam!

Another thing, its not our fault that Hitler thought of the tall blondes to be the ideal! And because some right wing guy in the USA sees photos of young people gathering together at a summer camp for the socialist party with a large procent having blond hair, he associates this with the Hitler Jugend.

[Eric]

Flower, we must take all people seriously, the nice ones and the nasty ones. America is not only the country of "Reds under the bed" McCarthy or the Oklahoma bomber. There are millions of Americans on both the right and the left, religious and secular, who are perfectly well-balanced normal people.

I repeat: I had already spotted Glenn "Idiot" Beck back in #64, long before anyone else mentioned it.

We must be vigilant and balanced, not get too emotional every time something nice or nasty happens. For instance, everyone was talking up the so called Arab Spring. The more sage people commenting warned that it might never happen. Mubarak is gone in Egypt, and now the Islamists and Liberals will soon be murdering one another, because the country has no experience of European-style democratic politics.

One thing I said was that we mustn't now lose sight of the very real threat still posed by Islamic terrorism in our peaceful European countries. Because everyone is focusing on Breivik, the following item of news was hardly noticed in the press:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2011/ju...-terrorism-act

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-14311252

These are the same sort of "whites" as Breivik, but German and converts to Islam. They were smuggling extremist literature into Britain. They are being held in Belmarsh high secuity gaol.

[Eric]

And now immigration into Norway, which is one of the background factors that have caused the emotionless psychopath Breivik to go on a murder spree. His own broken home and messed up childhood will have turned him into the mentally unstable man he is. But as I keep saying, we must analyse why things happen and their background, not turn everything into convenient black-and-white categories.

I read in the French daily Le Figaro, which I sometimes buy, that Norway's immigrant population was about 5% in 1970, 6.3% around the year 2000, and is now, in 2011, about 12.2%, which is quite a lot more people over the past ten years. What has changed significantly is the proportion of people who do not come from Europe or North America (and are thus expected to have a similar lifestyle to that of Norway).

The total population of Norway is about 4,920,000.

Of that total, there are the following numbers of immigrants to Norway from eight countries at the top of the immigrant list (rounded up or down):

Poland: 60,000
Sweden: 34,000
Pakistan: 32,000
Irak: 28,000
Somalia: 27,500
Germany: 24,500
Vietnam: 20,500
Denmark: 19,500

These are the bald statistics about the top eight countries of many, and they can be interpreted in different ways. As can the following statistic, also from the same article in the French paper:

28.4% of the population of Oslo is of immigrant origin.

How many generations they go back I do not know, and obviously such figures can be manipulated. But in practice it means that over about forty years Norway has moved from about 50,000 immigrants, mostly of European origin, to 600,000, quite a few of which come from countries whose lifestyles are different from those of Northern Europe, and are war zones or countries whose economy doesn't work. Such people start at a disadvantage with regard to language, education, and outlook, and the memories of violence and mayhem that weigh them down.

*

So I was pleased to see an article in today's SvD (Swedish daily) where councillors from Solna, in effect a suburb of Stockholm, have shown that Solna is a success story getting unemployment down. The two authors of the article seem convinced that integration and getting immigrants into meaningful jobs is the way forward. I think they are right. But integration has to be active, not just fancy words.

When you have large numbers of foreigners living in your country, a serious, well-planned and well-executed integration policy, plus lots of jobs, is the way to stop both the immigrants themselves, and the ultra-right, from causing trouble. People learn to integrate at work, not at home, especially as they will be surrounded at home by other immigrants who may also be unemployed.

[Eric]

Just a few statistics from neighbouring Sweden:

Total population for Sweden: 9.3 million people.

Number of immigrants: Around 1.3 million people. This represents about 14.3% of the total population. This percentage has evidently doubled since 1999.

*

Total population for Uppsala län (province or county): 335,000 people of which about 200,000 in the city and environs.

Number of immigrants: Around 43,500 (including me!). This represents about 13.1% of the population of Uppsala län (province or county).

Once again, these statistics say nothing about origin, integration, education, religion, income bracket, and other things. But if indeed the proportion of immigrants has doubled (!) over one decade, you can perhaps see why some Swedes are getting worried. This whole issue must be carefully debated and then action must be taken. If Solna is anything to judge by, the control of immigration can be a success story if people are integrated and have work.

[Eric]

The difference between Norway and Syria:

Norway is a democratic country where the peace has been shattered by one lone psychopath who has murdered some 80 people in cold blood and wounded many more.

Syria is a dictatorship where in one weekend the ruler of the country has given orders to mow down people in cold blood, killing 80 or so people and wounding many more.

Where would you rather live? A trauma is a trauma, but endemic internecine hatred and chaos is of another order. Things must be got into perspective. While it is highly unlikely that another Breivik will emerge in Norway, another Bashar Assad is not unliklely, should this one be assassinated. A hydra has many heads.

[Flower]

Flower, we must take all people seriously, the nice ones and the nasty ones. America is not only the country of "Reds under the bed" McCarthy or the Oklahoma bomber. There are millions of Americans on both the right and the left, religious and secular, who are perfectly well-balanced normal people.

I repeat: I had already spotted Glenn "Idiot" Beck back in #64, long before anyone else mentioned it.

Eric, do not lecture me! Nor talk to me like Im some kind of igorant idiot, thank you!

[hdw]

There's a long article about the Breivik affair in today's Observer. I didn't read it word for word, because, quite honestly, I can't take much more on this subject. But a statistic from the end of the article caught my eye. In the last ten years, 1,500 indigenous Norwegians have converted to Islam. What in God's name is that all about? Surely they can't all be Norwegian women who have married a Muslim?

Harry

[Flower]

There's a long article about the Breivik affair in today's Observer. I didn't read it word for word, because, quite honestly, I can't take much more on this subject. But a statistic from the end of the article caught my eye. In the last ten years, 1,500 indigenous Norwegians have converted to Islam. What in God's name is that all about? Surely they can't all be Norwegian women who have married a Muslim?

Harry

Im a bit like you, Harry! I find it tiring with all the speculation on the subject. They got the guy and he will be prisoned or send away for a very long time. All the young people and their families are very traumatised and need peace and time to heal. It has been a huge shock to witness this terrible event and I dont think we will ever get any real answers as to why and how. Jens Stoltenberg managed to rise to the occation big time and his actions, support and statemanship has set the only true direction forward from now on.

Peace
Flower

[hdw]

Here's an article from the Observer New Review section that combines the Utøya massacre and Norwegian crime writing.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/books/2011...on-scandinavia

Harry

[Eric]

The trial has been going for a couple of weeks now. The whole end of the matter hinges on the fact whether or not Breivik is responsible for his actions, i.e. is sane but criminal, or whether he is a criminal psychopath, i.e. insane. Either way, a lot of people will have had to go through the whole thing again, especially the loss of family members. Breivik seems to be answering everything in a cool rational manner, but appears to lack emotions. It is a very disturbing business.