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Thread: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

  1. #41
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by kpjayan View Post
    I am waiting for that unknown, single book published, Ecuadorian (?) name to prop up and move up the bookies chart as last year...

    Personally, I would prefer an African name being selected this time.. Nuruddin Farah , or Thion'go etc..
    Ahh you mean Mr. Nestor "Unkonwn" Amarilla. He's not Ecuadorian but Paraguayan. It doesn't really matter, but it's unbeliveable that he is still named in one of the bet lists JTolle presented.

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    I'd prefer Albee. More than anyone. I'd be happy if Gore Vidal won though.
    Ok Jake Ok, I think you've made your point clear in here by mentioning it like 25 TIMES ALREADY in this thread!!!

    You see people, be prepared when you call out for this guy

  2. #42
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    Anyway, let me say that sentence is exactly what bothers me about Pynchon when I try to read, beyond the snarkiness and propensity to take referencing games too far. It's a similar reason why I simply put down a William S. Burroughs book recently. That sentence rambles onward, with a collection of clauses that don't quite seem to fit together, and seem to be a blur of visceral images and poetic language overflowing, no, not overflowing, flooding and smashing the floodwalls of that sentence. At the least, when Virginia Woolf or Faulkner put a sentence up for half a page, or stopped in the middle of a sentence and picked it back up 40 pages later, the internal logic and order of the sentence's progression was still clear and Faulkner especially was great at not overloading an sentence to the point of hyperbole. Not to start an argument.

    edit: I feel so strongly like there should be a dash, or two, or three, in that Pynchon sentence and then the shift of images and progression of the sentence would be much cleaner for me as a reader.
    *grumbles* Well, last time we "discussed" a sentence of Pynchon's I blew up in a fiery page-long rant, so I'll take your opinion with some salt. But, do you really think McCarthy, Roth, or DeLillo are on-par with Pynchon, sentence-wise? And I really think that those propulsive, ungrammatical commas are one of his stylistic things, like colons are in the later work of Juan Goytisolo.

    And, speaking of Goytisolo. How could I forget my favorite pair of (living) literary brothers: Juan and Luis Goytisolo. I own a few more of Juan's novels, but have so far been more impressed with Luis' stupendous 360 Degree Diary (2000). Anyways, they've both been cited as competitors for the Nobel, Juan for a bit longer, though. They both have impressive novel-cycles, by all accounts, too. Juan's is known as the Álvaro Mendiola Trilogy, and Luis' is known as Antagonía.

    from J. Goytisolo's Juan the Landless (1975) (trans. Peter Bush):

    and what about the executed?, you will say : aren't they human beings like everyone else? : or don't heretics, sinners and members of the ranks of the unclean degenerate castes suffer? : and although the best doctors and scientific authorities are unanimous in finding that depraved men and individuals from bastard or diseased races do not have the same sensitivity to pain as right-minded pure-blooded folk, we will for the moment ignore that argument...
    "...in the spring there was clouds"

  3. #43
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by JTolle View Post
    I would appreciate an unexpected choice, if it had to be an American. Someone Like John Ashbery, Tony Kushner, or Jay Wright, who, fabulous writers that they are, aren't "expected" in the way Roth, DeLillo, Pynchon, and McCarthy are.
    And to think that they waisted the prize 18 years ago on Toni Morrison, only deserving it as a token gesture to minorities.........

  4. #44
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    I think it will be merely be a few years. The German language has some good writers, but the names discussed are young and can wait a while, .....
    How about Peter Handke (69), or Christa Wolf (82)?

  5. #45
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by JTolle View Post
    *grumbles* Well, last time we "discussed" a sentence of Pynchon's I blew up in a fiery page-long rant, so I'll take your opinion with some salt. But, do you really think McCarthy, Roth, or DeLillo are on-par with Pynchon, sentence-wise? And I really think that those propulsive, ungrammatical commas are one of his stylistic things, like colons are in the later work of Juan Goytisolo.

    And, speaking of Goytisolo. How could I forget my favorite pair of (living) literary brothers: Juan and Luis Goytisolo. I own a few more of Juan's novels, but have so far been more impressed with Luis' stupendous 360 Degree Diary (2000). Anyways, they've both been cited as competitors for the Nobel, Juan for a bit longer, though. They both have impressive novel-cycles, by all accounts, too. Juan's is known as the Álvaro Mendiola Trilogy, and Luis' is known as Antagonía.

    from J. Goytisolo's Juan the Landless (1975) (trans. Peter Bush):
    McCarthy is no where near Pynchon when it comes to sentence. I could get over Pynchon maybe if I tried really hard (I just haven't yet felt that there was something there worth the effort), but McCarthy simply likes to sprinkle in big, impressive sounding sentences for special effect. I dunno. I tend to like DeLillo when it comes to his nuts and bolts, or at least I did in White Noise.
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiffelio View Post
    How about Peter Handke (69), or Christa Wolf (82)?
    I don't think Wolf will get it. I think she has too much baggage with the DDR to get it.

    Handke could very well get it, but he'll have to wait another decade, and is hampered by his pro-Milosevic rants.
    "I am not young enough to know everything" -Oscar Wilde
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  7. #47
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiffelio View Post
    And to think that they waisted the prize 18 years ago on Toni Morrison, only deserving it as a token gesture to minorities.........
    Wow, that's a really rude and presumptuous thing to say.

  8. #48
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Stiffelio View Post
    And to think that they waisted the prize 18 years ago on Toni Morrison, only deserving it as a token gesture to minorities.........
    I'm not sure where the sarcasm is coming from here, so I'll assume you're speaking seriously. I recommend you go out and get a copy of Song of Solomon (1977) to get yourself acquainted with a masterpiece of American literature. Morrison is a central figure in our literary landscape.
    "...in the spring there was clouds"

  9. #49
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by JTolle View Post
    I'm not sure where the sarcasm is coming from here, so I'll assume you're speaking seriously. I recommend you go out and get a copy of Song of Solomon (1977) to get yourself acquainted with a masterpiece of American literature. Morrison is a central figure in our literary landscape.
    Is she really? I've heard very little from her in the past twenty years, and while I haven't read Song of Solomon, I've read The Bluest Eye and several of the works she has written since the mid 1980s and not liked them at all. I don't see how she could be described as a central figure in America's literary landscape. I mean to me she's inferior to at least one or two other African American writers who wrote on issues of race relations during that time period, particularly August Wilson.

    While I think Stifelio's comments were rude, and I didn't like his racial connotations, I kind of think with that with her Award an entire generation of American author's lost their chance, since the Nobel has been loathe to give it to Americans since the 1970s, (excluding some foreign writers who sought asylum in America).
    "I am not young enough to know everything" -Oscar Wilde
    "The best way to protect your place in this world is to do nothing at all." -From Ikiru

  10. #50
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Two names: Colm Toibin and Olga Tokarczuk... I am not quite sure if one of them will already be the lucky one this year but I wouldn´t be surprised, or if they would get the Nobel in the following years to come.

    Personally I would not mind DeLillo, Pynchon or McCarthy but I seriously doubt it will happen, ever.

    I dont understand anyway why everybody considers country, language and the "right" political message as more important then the literary merits of the writers themselves. Cant be someone who is writing in spanish because MVL won the last year, cant be someone from one of the South American countries because MVL won last year etc etc etc

  11. #51
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by nightwood View Post
    I dont understand anyway why everybody considers country, language and the "right" political message as more important then the literary merits of the writers themselves. Cant be someone who is writing in spanish because MVL won the last year, cant be someone from one of the South American countries because MVL won last year etc etc etc
    Yes, very good, I also do not understand this. In interviews the committee members keep saying that literary considerations alone are the relevant criteria. And apart from extreme cases I believe them. Sure in the past, like the first few decades of the 20th century, certainly political considerations were often the more important factor, but it does not seem to be so relevant anymore these days.

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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    Is she really? I've heard very little from her in the past twenty years, and while I haven't read Song of Solomon, I've read The Bluest Eye and several of the works she has written since the mid 1980s and not liked them at all. I don't see how she could be described as a central figure in America's literary landscape. I mean to me she's inferior to at least one or two other African American writers who wrote on issues of race relations during that time period, particularly August Wilson.
    Hey Waalk. I can fully understand how you can dislike certain authors on terms of personal taste, everybody does this, right? But being a bit more humble could not hurt, no? I mean, no offense, but even if I do not like a specific author I can still objectively appreciate her command of the respective language or her importance or at least of some of her works (some authors got the nobel mainly for specific works). You see, when so many very intelligent and experienced people all over the world are hailing her books, at least Song of Solomon and Beloved, does it not strike you (being in your early 20s?) that there could be more to it? That there could be certain aspects that you simply do not get?

    And I do not think any American author lost his chance because of her winning. And I do not think that Wolf could not get it because she got "too much baggage with the DDR".

    And excuse me, but statements like the following:
    "Amos Oz is perhaps one of the most intelligent commentators on the Israeli situation around today, and his viewpoint is remarkably balanced; I'd see no problem giving the award to him, but can't speak on the matter as I haven't read any of his work."
    are not really supporting the view that all of your posts are really thought through...
    Last edited by Rumpelstilzchen; 26-Jul-2011 at 09:45.

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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Are we still speculating? We'll run out of steam by the date in October, which is still about ten-eleven weeks away.

    Liehtzu mentions Tomas Venclova. I have explained why I think Sweden will avoid giving anything to a Balt, but Venclova does complete the trio from the Baltics with Jaan Kaplinski batting for Estonia, and Imants Ziedonis for Latvia. A Lithuanian Nobel would be interesting.

    I hope that it is not another winner from an English-speaking country, as that language is over-exposed in the world. But it is supposed to be a prize for an individual, not a collective, so you never know.

    Maybe giving the prize 50-50 to an Arab and an Israeli would not be such a good idea, as it would utterly politicise the prize. It is a prize for literary prowess, not for peace, progressive thinking, or political astuteness.

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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Apfelwurm View Post
    Hey Waalk. I can fully understand how you can dislike certain authors on terms of personal taste, everybody does this, right? But being a bit more humble could not hurt, no? I mean, no offense, but even if I do not like a specific author I can still objectively appreciate her command of the respective language or her importance or at least of some of her works (some authors got the nobel mainly for specific works). You see, when so many very intelligent and experienced people all over the world are hailing her books, at least Song of Solomon and Beloved, does it not strike you (being in your early 20s?) that there could be more to it? That there could be certain aspects that you simply do not get?

    And I do not think any American author lost his chance because of her winning. And I do not think that Wolf could not get it because she got "too much baggage with the DDR".

    And excuse me, but statements like the following:
    "Amos Oz is perhaps one of the most intelligent commentators on the Israeli situation around today, and his viewpoint is remarkably balanced; I'd see no problem giving the award to him, but can't speak on the matter as I haven't read any of his work."
    are not really supporting the view that all of your posts are really thought through...
    Oi, Blimey ya annoying dope. I thought with the Oz bit it was pretty damn clear I was saying I haven't read any of his novels. I've read several of his essays on the Israeli-Palestine issue which is what I was referring to.

    Do you possibly think that there are also many other intelligent people and experienced people that are more baffled than I am by the Morrison choice? My point was that even if she did write two masterpieces, I wouldn't say she's got much of a presence on American literature right now, and the quality of her work since hasn't impressed me and that you don't really hear much about her these days.

    And yeah, given that the Nobel has passed over other authors who were remotely compromised by communism in recent years, including Milan Kundera, I think there's little chance for a woman who worked as a Stasi Informant and even afterwards opposed German reunification while remaining an avid Marxist, is going to win the Nobel.

    And it's clear to me that Morrison's award was part of some brief generational hat tip by the Nobel Committee. They haven't returned to American literature since. So some authors have lost their chance, especially those who, you know, died in the meantime, like Arthur Miller. And August Wilson.
    Last edited by waalkwriter; 26-Jul-2011 at 14:02.
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Eric View Post
    Are we still speculating? We'll run out of steam by the date in October, which is still about ten-eleven weeks away.

    Liehtzu mentions Tomas Venclova. I have explained why I think Sweden will avoid giving anything to a Balt, but Venclova does complete the trio from the Baltics with Jaan Kaplinski batting for Estonia, and Imants Ziedonis for Latvia. A Lithuanian Nobel would be interesting.

    I hope that it is not another winner from an English-speaking country, as that language is over-exposed in the world. But it is supposed to be a prize for an individual, not a collective, so you never know.

    Maybe giving the prize 50-50 to an Arab and an Israeli would not be such a good idea, as it would utterly politicise the prize. It is a prize for literary prowess, not for peace, progressive thinking, or political astuteness.
    Speaking of literary prowess, I'd want the award to go to Adonis. The fact that he happens to be an iconoclastic Arabic poet, an underrepresented literature, is just an added bonus. I was merely explaining that the Nobel doesn't, thankfully, happen in a vacuum. I also believe that. generally, a name has to fail multiple times (like Adonis has), before its turn finally comes around in the group dynamics.
    "I am not young enough to know everything" -Oscar Wilde
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    And yeah, given that the Nobel has passed over other authors who were remotely compromised by communism in recent years, including Milan Kundera,
    Now I am getting really curious how you will backup this claim by FACTS. The committee is claiming that they only care about literature and nothing else.

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    I think there's little chance for a woman who worked as a Stasi Informant and even afterwards opposed German reunification while remaining an avid Marxist, is going to win the Nobel.
    There first statement out of any context is total crap. It is a well known fact, that you can read up in any decent text about the author, that she was forced to work for the Stasi first, but only wrote a handful of unimportant reports that did not have any consequences for the affected individums at all, and later she even refused cooporation and was therefore under surveillance herself until the end of the GDR. Also I do not think the political opinion of an author is or should be of any relevance for this prize.

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    And it's clear to me that Morrison's award was part of some brief generational hat tip by the Nobel Committee. They haven't returned to American literature since.
    Aha, it is a nice and simple fantasy world you are constructing there... I would be quite annoyed as a committee member if someone came and claimed such hilarious stuff...

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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    What I do not really understand is the following: all kinds of people try to explain why certain authors did not get the prize by inventing very simple and easily satisfying explanations, that are mostly wishful thinking fitting their individual biases. Like the Kundera example above. Why not going for the most obvious explanation, i.e. that the committee simply found other authors more worthy of the prize?

  18. #58
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Apfelwurm View Post
    Now I am getting really curious how you will backup this claim by FACTS. The committee is claiming that they only care about literature and nothing else.


    There first statement out of any context is total crap. It is a well known fact, that you can read up in any decent text about the author, that she was forced to work for the Stasi first, but only wrote a handful of unimportant reports that did not have any consequences for the affected individums at all, and later she even refused cooporation and was therefore under surveillance herself until the end of the GDR. Also I do not think the political opinion of an author is or should be of any relevance for this prize.


    Aha, it is a nice and simple fantasy world you are constructing there... I would be quite annoyed as a committee member if someone came and claimed such hilarious stuff...
    Ya know, because someone holds differing opinions than you doesn't give you the right to be an ass. Pure and simple. I'm tired of broaching any discussion with you because you lack the basic decency to argue with politeness. Every time I've had a debate with you, you instantly turn it into a smug little personal assault and it pisses me off, that is not how you have a real discussion with someone, especially someone who is presenting legitimate statements and opinions, based on legitimate experiences.

    The idea that the Nobel cares only about literature and nothing else is what is truly laughable, though of course they are going to claim differently.

    There was in fact a lot of discussion when Herta Muller got the award over Kundera that this was because she was an author under the communist system who was uncompromised.
    "I am not young enough to know everything" -Oscar Wilde
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by Apfelwurm View Post
    What I do not really understand is the following: all kinds of people try to explain why certain authors did not get the prize by inventing very simple and easily satisfying explanations, that are mostly wishful thinking fitting their individual biases. Like the Kundera example above. Why not going for the most obvious explanation, i.e. that the committee simply found other authors more worthy of the prize?
    Because it isn't the most obvious explanation, obviously.
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    Default Re: Nobel Prize in Literature 2011 Speculation

    Quote Originally Posted by waalkwriter View Post
    Ya know, because someone holds differing opinions than you doesn't give you the right to be an ass. Pure and simple. I'm tired of broaching any discussion with you because you lack the basic decency to argue with politeness. Every time I've had a debate with you, you instantly turn it into a smug little personal assault and it pisses me off, that is not how you have a real discussion with someone, especially someone who is presenting legitimate statements and opinions, based on legitimate experiences.

    The idea that the Nobel cares only about literature and nothing else is what is truly laughable, though of course they are going to claim differently.

    There was in fact a lot of discussion when Herta Muller got the award over Kundera that this was because she was an author under the communist system who was uncompromised.
    Don't get silly... I was not questioning your opinion, but the facts you were claiming and basing your opinion on. So I get the impression that your opinion is not based on any facts.

    Why not have some respect for the hard work those women and men are doing each year in the committee? Why not assume they are really doing their best to find a worthy author from a literary point of view? Why not be happy about all those great writers they are unearthing that many people have never heard of?

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