Say No to Fat (Fat Books, That Is)

[Rumpelstilzchen]

I'll send you some used Kleenex next week, luv, kindly disregard the snot, I've been a little sick lately, .

how do you call this stuff then? Ah, I just checked an online dictionary, it says onionskin paper, smelly... (or leight weight paper???)

[Hamlet]

It is nice to see that you are not as gloomy and melancholic as your namesake

Btw, I am a fan of thin paper, which is unfortunately not really used in English publications (apart from certain religious books). Because with this it does not matter if the book has many pages or not, it is not taking much space on my shelf in any case. I love that some German publishers are using this kind of paper for classics with many pages (Hanser for example), because if you really want to read those books it is much easier carrying thin paper books around or holding them in your hands, say because Anna Karenina has basically the thickness of a normal 300p book. And I think such books are much more elegantly and sophisticatedly looking on my shelf than the average bulky and fat SF pulp hardcover.

Hello Rumpel', how are you?

I think that if we're being fair to Hamlet he'd had a pretty rough year by the time we meet him discussing ghosts with Horatio.

After all, his mum had re-married after only a month to his father's murderer who was formerly his Uncle. And yet, he still managed to put on that "antic disposition" and have a few laughs!

Books-

This is interesting.

So, if I've understood you, in Germany the paper used for English books is quite thick, but that appears to be relaxing as more become available? Is this because they are translations or classics or both?

In England, we tend to be used to the lighter paper, especially if you purchase paperbacks by either Penguin or Oxford University Press.

I like the better quality paper with a few volumes, Arden Shakespeare paperbacks are printed on good paper. Not thick, but it doesn't tend to yellow!

[Hamlet]

Hamlet, you've made the day.* Now the task is how many volumes of "Hamlet" do you need to reach for the upper shelf? )

Original printing of Hamlet (the first and the last page)
Attachment 384Attachment 385

I think we have a number of options Threetrees.

It's tricky, but we'll be okay.

If we're going for height, we have to be careful about safety.

If anyone was to fall off a Hamlet and injure themselves during this dangerous exercise we could also injure Shakespeare's reputation.

I don't think the question "excludes" the use of an original folio volume?

Hamlet is only one of 36 plays, but as there isn't any part of the question which excludes a collected works approach and HAMLET is in there we'll be okay methinks.

It will have to be a folio.

We need three volumes, at least!

I don't think we'll persuade many millionaire collectors to part with their precious volumes just so that we can step-up on them to reach a cupboard, so we'll just have to improvise.

Okay, so let's say we acquire three heavy and rigid hardback copies of the famous Norton Facsimile (which at 960+ pages should be sufficient?)

However, if a pedantic rules-bandit turns up we'll have to beat a hasty retreat and quickly substitute the Norton's for, say, the latest Third Series Arden?

It's full of notes for one and thick so we get rigidity again.

We need at least two piles of ten, we could get up to the upper shelf safely by placing those side by side.

But I'd say, we also need to use string to tie-up those shaky paperback piles of Arden Hamlet's very carefully indeed.

As I mentioned before, one slip, a sprained ankle, a bump on the head, and Shakespeare's reputation could and probably would suffer!

[Threetrees]

Rumpel'? )))))))) (I laughed so heartedly, Hamlet). You've even contrived to shorten this fat German name.* Shortenings like that can save the paper. "Shrek 4" would be extremely proud of having you as a friend and consultant. )

[Rumpelstilzchen]

Hello Rumpel', how are you?

I think that if we're being fair to Hamlet he'd had a pretty rough year by the time we meet him discussing ghosts with Horatio.

After all, his mum had re-married after only a month to his father's murderer who was formerly his Uncle. And yet, he still managed to put on that "antic disposition" and have a few laughs!

Books-

This is interesting.

So, if I've understood you, in Germany the paper used for English books is quite thick, but that appears to be relaxing as more become available? Is this all translations?

In England, we tend to be used to the lighter paper, especially if you purchase paperbacks by either Penguin or Oxford University Press.

I like the better quality paper with a few volumes, Arden Shakespeare paperbacks are printed on good paper. Not thick, but it doesn't tend to yellow!

That's right, I think in the end he is a sympathic guy...

about the paper... no (I am not sure if you are making fun, but anyway) what I meant is that most books, be it in Germany or England or wherever, are not printed on this very thin kind of paper, which is for example used in many bibles, see here (i.e. therefore Bible Paper seems to be another expression for it):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bible_paper

It is so thin that you can pack 500 pages on one or two centimeters. You never have paperbacks with this kind of paper (certainly not the cheaper stuff from Penguin), only expensive hardcovers. In any case it is very convenient in case of books with many pages, because as I said a hardcover made from this paper with ~1000 pages is as thick as a normal paperback of (lets say) 300 pages.

There are some publishers who use it for their classics series (at least in Germany, never seen it in the US or England). I don't know if this kind of paper is very expensive per se, but it is likely. All I wanted to say is that I prefer slim books for reading convenience, it does not matter if they have few or many pages. I do not like fat books. And I would prefer if more books were printed on this kind of paper.

[Hamlet]

@Threetrees

I'm sure I'll get to be called Ham' around here my friend!



@Rumpelstilzchen

Not making fun.



I understand now.

Yes, some of the bibles here have the very thin type of paper.

The type of book you also see in thin paper is legal texts, especially legislation, huge volumes which require wafer thin paper.

I don't think we're seeing this sort of paper used with Anna Karenina, or a classic novel, at least, I haven't seen any which are on this paper.

Oh, btw, I only shortened your name as it's difficult to type within these boxes and my keyboard keeps missing out letters.

nb, where I typed that Hamlet 'had had a pretty rough year' that was 'wry' or in fun, as it plays down how serious the play is.

We have to adjust for humour from Englsh to German, and vice-versa, but it's always respectful!

[Threetrees]

@#23 Post. I keep on chortling but I can not control it, Hamlet. Excellent, subtle and buffoonery stuff. ) I lack in this one here. Nice to meet you. TTT. ... and I enjoy your ham' style.*

[Rumpelstilzchen]

Oh, btw, I only shortened your name as it's difficult to type within these boxes and my keyboard keeps missing out letters.

nb, where I typed that Hamlet 'had had a pretty rough year' that was 'wry' or in fun, as it plays down how serious the play is.

We have to adjust for humour from Englsh to German, and vice-versa, but it's always respectful!

No problem, for this reason the others here call me Rumpy or something like that . I understood the fun in your Hamlet remark .

Yes, adjusting to people from different cultural backgrounds is sometimes a bit tricky, a lot of the heated discussions that you can find on internet fora are based on misunderstandings due to different languages and culture. I guess the step across the channel is rather easy in that respect , so we do not have to worry

[Hamlet]

Ahh yes guys, good to meet you both. Hello and look forward to catching up with you later.

Manly handshake.

[Threetrees]

The thread is getting thicker and thicker (curiousier and curiousier), Liam. We spin it. Butchers and birches. It's gaining weight. Obesity. Enjoy the feast. We are doomed.

[Hamlet]

Stephen King in his book On Writing says that 200k is a goodly length for a novel, and that the size of a novel can be its main strength as a delivery system.

We're back on track Liam.

[Threetrees]

Hi, Hamlet. There's a technique of converting book-kilograms into book-kilobytes.
ScanRobot 2.0 MDS

__________________________________________________ ________________________________

[Threetrees]

Instead of this ...*bookbookbook.jpg

[Hamlet]

Three'

(I'm at it again. . . must be a gene thing?)

Isn't technology wonderful, but there's another spin-off, the OP, I assume was aiming at actual "words on the page".

Stephen King speaks of 200,000 as a good length for fiction. He wasn't being overly-specific.

Reading the article it refers to BLEAK HOUSE and Dickens' longer works, the 800 pagers, personally, I don't prefer Christmas Carol, it is what it is, I sit down with a large Dickens and look forward to moving through it, I don't think - 'this needs a good edit'. We know he was serialised, and that this had a lot to do, perhaps, with "length". But Dickens is Dickens, his mind, his way of expressing himself, plot development, galaxy of characters. Shortening him would potentially leave one wishing for more.

Okay, so does changing the appearance and shape through technology, such as with a Kindle, in some way change the reading experience, or the sense of the reading experience, for longer fiction? The EXPERIENTIAL aspect. Like the way people experience time, it differs, apparently. Children to adult, readers?

Or, is it just harder to see how far away the end is?

[Threetrees]

I review Chekhov now. I remember he squeezed his works (due to publishers' requirements) along with Bunin. They both tried to be austere and direct. But they remained to be perfect even so.

"Try to be original in your play and as clever as possible; but don't be afraid to show yourself foolish; we must have freedom of thinking, and only he is an emancipated thinker who is not afraid to write foolish things. Don't round things out, don't polish but be awkward and impudent. Brevity is the sister of talent. Remember, by the way, that declarations of love, the infidelity of husbands and wives; widows', orphans', and all other tears, have long since been written up. The subject ought to be new, but there need be no "fable." And the main thing is father and mother must eat. Write. Flies purify the air, and plays the morals." A.P. Chekhov.

[Hamlet]

I particularly like what Chekhov says about being foolish and not polishing too much.


Hey Threetrees,
I'm baffled! You've defeated me. What is the meaning of "Threetrees" and the cryptic picture which has, well, three trees arranged side by side within it?

I was going to do a web search, but decided to just ask?

[Threetrees]

Perhaps, it's a bit "not of the thread", Hamlet. I am flattered and embarrassed. I knew that I'll meet you here (don't get it in the wrong way ). It's kinesthetic and inexplicable. If you only knew how many beautiful things and people went and go my way, you'd be more baffled than I am. There are no mysteries in this world, they exist only for those who are blind. Nature reveals its simple secrets only to those who look and want to see, who listen and want to hear. It knows and it is selective. You have the powers, the Gift - I've noticed it immediately. Search the web, you'll find the answers. Now all it may look as a "Matrix" movie but matrix has its unique meaning among others. Do you remember sonnet #3? What is Time? Beliefs of nations? Now I consider you as my friend. Thank you. Your words are powerful, use them and bring to. Sincerely, 3 T. (Instead of my second introduction in this thread).

Isn't it long and thick by the way, Liam?*

[Hamlet]

The Tale of Three Trees, Parable/folklore.
Sonnet3 - I know it, but how is it applicable here?

[Threetrees]

I'll be short and tripple-equivocal, a bit insane, an innuendo-maker, as the tread requires, Hamlet. (...Thou art thy mother's glass, and she in thee calls back the lovely April of her prime...) Proper nourishment can not destroy. Even Angelina Jolie knows it and keeps it on the skin above it. Womb, matrix - its child reads food there. (For where is she so fair whose uneared womb disdains the tillage of thy husbandry?) Time comes thrice. (Look in thy glass and tell the face thou viewest, now is the time that face should form another,whose fresh repair if now thou not renewest, thou dost beguile the world, unbless some mother.) Then it strikes for the third time. (Despite of wrinkles, this thy golden time.But if thou live rememb'red not to be, die single, and thine image dies with thee.) Trees born, grow and fall.*

Frog was bored.
There was nothing to do.
‘Don’t be bored, Frog,’ said Mouse.
‘We can go to the seaside, see?’

(A touching depiction of friendship between a timid Frog
and an adventurous Mouse. Mouse gently encourages Frog
into a world of discovery.)

Tracey Corderoy. She now lives in a hidden valley surrounded by sheep, wild deer and cows with big fluffy ears. Along with her husband and two daughters, she shares an ancient cottage with a huge Golden Retriever called Dylan (from Pontypool), several cats, guinea pigs and a teeny mini-lop eared rabbit who makes loud ducky noises.

[Hamlet]

Metaphorical Dialogues
by Hamlet

Sonnet 73
That Time of year thou mayst in me behold,
When yellow leaves, or none, or few do hand
Upon those boughs which shake against the cold,
Bare ruined choirs where late the sweet birds sang;


Have you seen the old man in the closed down market
kicking up the paper with worn out shoes?
in his eyes you see no pride, and held loosely
at his side yesterday's paper, telling yesterday's news
Refrain
So how can you tell me you're lonely, and for you that the sun don't shine...

Streets of London. The Beatles