Democracy Hong Kong style

[Eric]

We are always told that imperialism is wicked, and Britain honoured its pledge to give up its tiny colony Hong Kong in 1997.

But now, the pro-Beijing leader of Hong Kong has been elected by only just under 1,200 élite business voters from a population of around 7 million. (Mainland China has 1.3 billion, i.e. 1,300 million inhabitants.)

Now that the millionaire Leung has won the election to become leader, people will wonder what will happen to the former British colony in the long run. Will China keep changing the laws of Hong Kong till they are aligned with those of the rest of China?

There are many articles on this election. Here are a few:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10162012

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worl...-election.html

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/26/wo...ns-remain.html

Is this what the citizens of Hong Kong were dreaming of as the Union Jack was lowered in 1997? Who's the imperialist now?

[Kingbee]

It will change, slowly. I think there was an agreement that political structures couldn't be changed for 50 years after the handover or something, but they'll bend it until they can break it.

Hong Kong, as we know it know, will change massively. The amount of tourists from the mainland that visit are enormous and they have this almost condescending view of Hong Kong- you're part of China, so we can do what we want because you're ours. Thus HK has more and more spitting, eating on the MTR (underground) and less queuing and holding doors open for people etc. It seems like small things, but it's a sign that things will change massively. It's such a pity as mainland Chinese are often horrific tourists who don't care for sustainability, only for their own spending and face.

[Eric]

So, would you rather live in Cardiff, where you don't get arrested for using Welsh or censored when you want to access political websites, or in Hong Kong, the cradle of Chinese democracy? In 50 years, many of us on this chatsite will have died of old age, but of course they'll bend the rules long before then.

Britain honoured its commitment to hand Hong Kong back to China at the given date. But this just seems to mean that Hong Kong will rapidly lose its cosmopolitan character, and all the things that go wrong will, by devious means, get blamed on the British imperialists who trod the Chinese people of Hong Kong underfoot until they were liberated by the noble Communists from the mainland.

[Kingbee]

Well, I think both would be fine- at the moment at least. The thing is, I can only see HK getting less free, while Wales will get more free (especially as we're getting more and more autonomy!).

I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. Hong Kong is a wonderfully cosmopolitan city that will unfortunately get overrun by the mainland Chinese. However, this is only natural: it's demographics. It's impossible to stop mainland Chinese from heading down there. However, the HK government has recently introduced rules to stop mainland women from going to HK specially to give birth just so their kids will have the benefits of HK citizenship...

[Eric]

In other words, Hong Kong has become a free-for-all for balancing out demographics since the mainland Chinese took over. And given the fact that China is a communist dictatorship that pretends to be capitalist and is doing the good old imperial thing in Africa, this does not bode well in the long term for those vestiges of Western democracy that still remain in Hong Kong.

Russia did this trick with the Baltic countries when it took them over in 1940. It shipped in loads of industrial workers from Russia itself to water down the percentage of ethnic Balts. That's another way of applying the colonialist mentality to small helpless countries or enclaves. You flood the country with people who don't really know or care where they are living, as long as they've got a job. Then with manipulation, this body of people from elsewhere vote, in sham elections, and get all the best housing.

I should stay in Caerdydd and fight the English imperialist bastards, if I were you. You'll get a much easier ride than if you were to take on the mighty Chinese Communist Party (State Capitalism and African Colonialism Division) single handed.

[altai]

Hong Kong will definitely change in 50 years, but so will China. Nobody knows what's gonna happen to China in 10 years, let alone 50. I don't know any country that has undergone such a massive unheard of social and economic transformation as China in the last 30 years. Maybe Hong Kong will become less free, but will it be Chinese fault? Or the fault of Hong Kongese oligarchy? As for blending, I don't think it's gonna blend with mainland China more than New York has blended with the mainland USA. Hong Kong might remain cosmopolitan if the government of Hong Kong and its people make sure it stays so. why are so many mainland Chinese lured by Hong Kong? They have to get a visa to go there, they need a lot of money also. Hong Kong makes sure only rich Chinese can come and stay. It's interesting what will become of Hong Kong, but I think it's useless to cry over the loss of the precious multicultural atmosphere, because the world never stays still, it swirls and changes.

Hong Kong is also enclosed in a tiny area so demographically it can't grow so much. Housing is very expensive so there is a limit for growth. Also people forget about who are the people who live in Hong Kong now? Wasn't there a huge immigration of workers and peasants from mainland China in the 1950s to build the city? to become Hongkongese?

as for Chinese imperialist policies in Africa (and Latin America) it's a totally separate question. I just want to say that China getting mineral resources may or may not be imperialism depending on how it is done. I personally don't know if Chinese plunder African resources, but I do know that the most of minerals in Congo are illegally plundered by the Western corporations. People talk about it as though the Western imperialist phase in Africa is over, while it is very far from it. In fact, it continues unabated.

[Eric]

It think it is rather convenient to blame Western powers for the theft of mineral resources. It is a little naïve to think that the Chinese can't be imperialist because they don't actually take over countries like Britain, Russia, Portugal, France, Belgium, Turkey, etc., once did. The Chinese are shrewd enough to bribe and buy their way into African countries, get hold of all the mineral resources they want, then get out, presenting the face of innocence to the world, and still berating the USA for being imperialist. A grand sleight of hand.

Altai also says:

It's interesting what will become of Hong Kong, but I think it's useless to cry over the loss of the precious multicultural atmosphere, because the world never stays still, it swirls and changes.

Indeed, the Finns of a younger generation no longer bemoan the loss of the city of Viborg, which used to be cosmopolitan and where four languages were once spoken. Is Helsinki as cosmopolitan as Hong Kong nowadays? Have you read that interesting book called "Ryssänä Suomessa" which describes the plight of a Russian woman who lived for a while in Helsinki? That would suggest that people are selectively cosmopolitan, depending on whom you are expected to be cosmopolitan with.

[altai]

Eric, whatever you think about Chinese, they are still newcomers in the imperialist business. When did they start going aggressively into Africa? Ten years ago? I just don't like to hear so much in the mainstream Western media about Chinese business in Africa, as though the West has got all of a sudden a moral high ground here. If you just check the history of Democratic Republic of Congo for the last twenty years, you will see the biggest humanitarian crisis in the world, and almost no mentioning of it in any mainstream media.

As for Helsinki and Russia-Finland thing (do you really need to bring it up?)I didn't get the comparison. Helsinki is hardly the most cosmopolitan city in the world, it's OK. It's the only city in Finland where I can feel some kind of foreign presence, so I can live here. But every time I go somewhere else in Finland, I feel like in another country all of a sudden. So I stick mostly to my little multicultural corner.

As for Hong Kong, I always wanted to move there for a while, it always attracted me even though I know it's a lot about money and fast paced life and business. But maybe there is something poetic and melancholic there still. I think I'll check it out this summer

[Hamlet]

Very sad with Africa, they appear on the whole to get a rough deal whomever goes in, I know there's a lot of criticism which more or less says Africa somehow always needs help in getting things going and can't do it alone, but they just seem to get exploited by everybody.

There's some complex debate around aid being used, or flitered off, or the culture of dependency, it's beyond me. Corruption 'appears' to be rife and endemic over there.

That's a gross simplification of course, it depends on which country within Africa we're talking about, dictators, civil war, many factors involved, but it's continually depressing when you hear about it as a part of the world struggling to catch up and evolve into stability.

I'vw caught a few TV programmes on the Chinese and work conditions over there, it's not ideal. The West has a legacy of exploitation and aid, but we've yet to see how China treats Africa... as Altai says, it's early...