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Thread: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

  1. #81
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladril View Post
    Here is my shortlist for the 2017 Nobel Prize:

    1. Cat Stevens
    2. Joni Mitchell
    3. James Taylor
    4. Paul Simon
    5. Joan Baez

    Any bets?
    Americans? It seems highly unlikely they're going to award one of them so soon after a fellow American poet won the Prize last year.

    Nonetheless here's what Ladbrokes has to say

    Haruki Murakami 5/1
    Ngugi Wa Thiong'o 7/1
    Madonna 8/1
    Cat Stevens 10/1
    Javier Marias 16/1
    Laszlo Krasnahorkai 16/1
    Amos Oz 25/1
    Luis Miguel 25/1
    Peter Handke 50/1
    Taylor Swift 50/1

  2. #82
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    I agree. If they wanted to give it to a songwriter, Dylan was the obvious pick. I've heard people make the case for Leonard Cohen, but that usually boils down to him publishing a few "literary" books early in his career that would've been forgotten had he not become a musician.

    I've also heard rumors that the Academy was moving toward awarding writers from unconventional genres (admittedly this was just based on Alexievich and Dylan, so take it with a grain of salt). If that is actually the case, though, I hope the reaction to Dylan didn't scare them away. I'd love to see philosophers and historians win again, as well as writers from lesser genres.

    Edit: My post was to hoodoo. As for Kadare, I can't wait to see the ladbrokes odds this year. Bet there'll be some laughs there

  3. #83
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by kadare View Post
    Americans? It seems highly unlikely they're going to award one of them so soon after a fellow American poet won the Prize last year.

    Nonetheless here's what Ladbrokes has to say

    Haruki Murakami 5/1
    Ngugi Wa Thiong'o 7/1
    Madonna 8/1
    Cat Stevens 10/1
    Javier Marias 16/1
    Laszlo Krasnahorkai 16/1
    Amos Oz 25/1
    Luis Miguel 25/1
    Peter Handke 50/1
    Taylor Swift 50/1
    Luis Miguel! Good one!

  4. #84

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by hoodoo View Post
    Let it go. I'm kind of annoyed by all of the folks here who are trying to be funny and throwing out the names of professional songwriters as potential Nobel Prize winners. I imagine every single one of you to be kind of like Chuck, in Better Call Saul, for those who are familiar with the show.
    I don't watch any TV, so the comparison is lost on me. As for the Nobel prize, I assure you that it was not my intention to troll the forum. I just don't take literary prizes (even the golden swan of them) all that seriously. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but as far as I'm concerned they can give the Nobel Prize to whoever they wish. It's not like they ever asked for anyone's opinion, after all.

  5. #85

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by redheadshadz View Post
    I agree. If they wanted to give it to a songwriter, Dylan was the obvious pick. I've heard people make the case for Leonard Cohen, but that usually boils down to him publishing a few "literary" books early in his career that would've been forgotten had he not become a musician.
    Leonard Cohen was awarded the Prince of Asturias award in 2011 on the basis of "his poems and songwriting" (http://www.fpa.es/es/premios-princes...l?especifica=0). This goes to show that: 1) the Nobel committee did not begin the trend, and 2) at least part of the literary establishment regards his songs as important literature.

  6. #86

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Daniel del Real View Post
    Luis Miguel! Good one!
    Moving slightly away from the humor zone: has Luis Miguel actually composed anything? As far as I can tell he is just an interpreter.

  7. #87
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by redheadshadz View Post
    I agree. If they wanted to give it to a songwriter, Dylan was the obvious pick. I've heard people make the case for Leonard Cohen, but that usually boils down to him publishing a few "literary" books early in his career that would've been forgotten had he not become a musician.

    I've also heard rumors that the Academy was moving toward awarding writers from unconventional genres (admittedly this was just based on Alexievich and Dylan, so take it with a grain of salt). If that is actually the case, though, I hope the reaction to Dylan didn't scare them away. I'd love to see philosophers and historians win again, as well as writers from lesser genres.

    Edit: My post was to hoodoo. As for Kadare, I can't wait to see the ladbrokes odds this year. Bet there'll be some laughs there
    100% agree. So far under Sara Danius' tenure we've had two "unconventional" winners: A journalist of sort who renders interviews into prose and the first songwriter in over 100 years.

    The Leonard Cohen thing is getting old and I'm sick of hearing it. To begin with, by the time Cohen had released his first album Dylan, who is 7 years younger than Cohen, had released 8 albums, 4 of which are generally cited on "greatest albums of all time" type lists. By the time Cohen had released his first album Dylan had already become massively influential and famous, had altered the way The Beatles wrote music, and had established a lasting legacy. Dylan's influence and literary (as far as lyrics go) legacy precedes Cohen's.

    Cohen's publishing of some "real literary' works before he was a musician gets cited all the time by butthurt Leonard Cohen fanboys. These works mean nothing. They had little if any influence or legacy and are only of any note because of the songwriting career he established later.

    Last week at a used bookstore I found a recent printing of some of his poems. They were awful. Truly mediocre/bad stuff. There's a reason he didn't have a successful career as a poet. His poetry wasn't good. He lived for years working as a "literary figure" before becoming a musician because his dead parent's trust fund gave him money to live on.

    Not to mention, in all of this "this songwriter is better than that one" type debating, most people blatantly ignore that Dylan is the only one who publishes his lyrics as poetry in physical books and that he has been doing this for decades. That alone makes him one of the few eligible songwriters that could even be seriously considered for this prize.
    Last edited by Isahoinp; 23-Jun-2017 at 06:54.

  8. #88
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Ladril View Post
    the Nobel committee did not begin the trend, and 2) at least part of the literary establishment regards his songs as important literature
    The Swedish Academy awarded Rabindranath Tagore the Nobel Prize in 1913 for his songwriting, specifically, for Gitanjali, a collection of his lyrics translated into English with the help of Yeats. They did start the trend, nearly 100 years prior to Cohen's award.

    Currently, three of Tagore's songs are used as official national anthems for: India, Bangladesh, and Sri Lanka (though the authorship here is contested).

    This New York Time's article from 1913 quite thoroughly covers the fact that he was a songwriter:

    http://www.nytimes.com/packages/html...bel-Tagore.pdf

    "wherever Bengali is spoken his songs are sung hi and low - for like the old minstrels of the West, he sets his words to music of his own composition."

    I don't think the issue was ever really that Cohen's lyrics weren't considered "literature" or "literary", it's that he was nowhere near as important or influential as Bob Dylan and thus less deserving of a Nobel. Even as far as rock lyrics go Dylan's lyrics are far more "literary" in a traditional sense than Cohen's were.

  9. #89

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by Isahoinp View Post
    The Swedish Academy awarded Rabindranath Tagore the Nobel Prize in 1913 for his songwriting, specifically, for Gitanjali, a collection of his lyrics translated into English with the help of Yeats. They did start the trend, nearly 100 years prior to Cohen's award.
    Maybe. It is true that Tagore's best known work at the time of the award were songs, but they still were known and appreciated in the West mostly as written poetry. The work of Dylan and Cohen, on the other hand, became widely known in the form of musical performances.

  10. #90
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Well, for once I think we could not argue that writting lyrics is part of a literary tradition that is quite alive today if we couldn't bring more than one example of great songwriter that could win any prize alive. This would make Dylan some sort of space odity instead part of a tradition (after all, tradition is not something in the past only, but something that is in the present as well), after all a Nobel winner is also a victory of all related writers. Cohen is a great example, even because he is good enough. Could be even more "alternative" and be Chico Buarque de Holanda. Could be a woman and give to Patti Smith. Can be Nick Cave in a dozen of years when the bitterness is gone. There is an obvious intention reggarding the perception of poetry in modern days, songwriters and Dylan was quite suited for the task.

  11. #91
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by kadare View Post
    Americans?
    It seems there is a growing culture of fact-checking on this board since the arrival of a certain new member here. So here's my contribution: Cat Stevens and Joni Mitchell are not Americans. At least not USA-ians, but I guess that's what you meant.

    Other than that I fully agree with hoodoo. Quite annoying to see the same jokes coming back all the time. For anyone who feels (s)he needs to make a joke about Dylan and the Nobel, why don't you read last year's reactions on the Nobel thread first. It may help you to at least post something that's original.

  12. #92

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by peter_d View Post
    Other than that I fully agree with hoodoo. Quite annoying to see the same jokes coming back all the time. For anyone who feels (s)he needs to make a joke about Dylan and the Nobel, why don't you read last year's reactions on the Nobel thread first. It may help you to at least post something that's original.
    Got it, boss! By the way, the thread has moved on.

  13. #93
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Real talk: which "unconventional" writers do you guys think are Nobel quality? Not singers, etc, but philosophers, historians, journalists, that sort of thing.

    As far as historians go, I really enjoy Robert Darnton, with his illuminating works on 1700s France, books, and historiography were quite good.

    For philosophers, Zizek is probably the most famous continental philosopher (and I'd bet if a philosopher wins anytime soon, it would a well-known continental), but I'm not so sure about his work.

  14. #94
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Well, perhaps it is too soon, but things can really go high unconventional one day. Quino and Bill Watterson are very good writers and what would be more unconventional than rewarding comic strips? In this spirit, Alan Moore, Art Spielgelman, Neil Gaiman have wrote some of the best comic books ever. Since drama writting is rewarded, maybe in a few years movies writing will be considered too, abeit, it is a bit too hard since the scripts are not published so often (what exactly we will find in script by Noah Hawley's Fargo or David Lynch's Twin Peaks?).

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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by redheadshadz View Post
    Real talk: which "unconventional" writers do you guys think are Nobel quality? Not singers, etc, but philosophers, historians, journalists, that sort of thing.

    For philosophers, Zizek is probably the most famous continental philosopher (and I'd bet if a philosopher wins anytime soon, it would a well-known continental), but I'm not so sure about his work.
    Zizek won't ever win. He's too controversial and amongst many academics he has a terrible reputation. He heavily plagiarizes and often miss-cites things, he's been accused of self plagiarism, he frequently uses ideas that have been scientifically disproven or are just outright outdated, many philosophers insist he's misread works he addresses in his own texts.

    Comic Book winners, those whose sole works are comic books, will never win. In a sense though many might consider them "literature" they're still often considered visual media and academic teachings of them in literary departments are few and far between. There's also a difference between comic book series and graphic novels but that's a different issue altogether.

    Outside of a very simplistic addressing of what happened during the Holocaust and it's visual horrors, Art Spiegelman's Maus wasn't really some great literary masterpiece to me. We read it in high school history class and it was essentially just like "look! The holocaust was really violent and awful!"

    Neil Gaiman may have written good comic books but his prose writing is awful. Poorly constructed, full of cheesy cliches and half-baked plots. I will never understand the praise American Gods gets from genre fiction fanatics. The characters all had seemingly non-existent personalities, the plot seemed thrown together with little regard for a conclusuon or a cohesive story, the main character's name was "Shadow."

    Authors that write film scripts have won before. I doubt I could name many living scriptwriters (those who are strictly writing film scripts and not novels etc) who are actively publishing their works and who's quality consistency is high enough to deserve a Nobel (let alone most of the other international literary awards).

  16. #96
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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Yeah, Faulkner won and such, but I mean as a form to vallue script writing, but yeah, the "genre" itself is far from something stabilished as playwritting is.

    As Gaiman, I think his best work is Sandman, as it allows him to dwell in what he is better... storytelling and revival of traditional storytelling. It is the best part of most of his novels (even American Gods, which is indeed flawed, mostly, it goes as a typical best-seller novel, as if Gaiman who has a distinct style in english tradition of fantasy is trying to adjust to the american marketing, with their hard boiled/pulp fantasy and does not go always well, they have one or another momment, Gaiman imagination, but lacks indeed a lot) and his short stories. Of course, I listed him because of his comic book work mostly, outside of it, he is a cool writer (but then, some candidates people put foward are not greater either, but such is life). In a Dylan-way, if one day they decide to vallue to genre, Gaiman is obviously a good representative, even if not better (considering how Old Quino is, how anti-media Alan Moore is, how reclusive Bill Watterson is, etc).

  17. #97

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by redheadshadz View Post
    Real talk: which "unconventional" writers do you guys think are Nobel quality? Not singers, etc, but philosophers, historians, journalists, that sort of thing.

    As far as historians go, I really enjoy Robert Darnton, with his illuminating works on 1700s France, books, and historiography were quite good.

    For philosophers, Zizek is probably the most famous continental philosopher (and I'd bet if a philosopher wins anytime soon, it would a well-known continental), but I'm not so sure about his work.
    Real response: Eric Hobsbawm would have made an excellent choice if he were still alive. Zizek is too much of a shit-stirrer to be awarded it. Jurgen Habermas would be an obvious choice, in my opinion.
    Last edited by Ladril; 28-Jun-2017 at 23:21.

  18. #98

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    I would say that Eric Hobsbawm would have been a decent choice. I think that Eduardo Galeano would have been a better one though. E.P. Thompson as well, but as far as literary value goes I would say Galeano trumps him (Thompson, though, as a historian, was infinitely better and more important that Hobsbawm). I don't know of too many historians I would think would be worthy recipients and who are still around though. I suspect some would say Niall Ferguson and Jared Diamond, but they have no hope in winning based partially on politics and mostly (entirely) on the quality of their works.

    I want to see a play-write win. I need to get into reading more plays. But that is a selfish desire. And I know nothing of the play-writing world.

    When do we open up a speculation thread? In a few weeks? August 1st?

    I'm glad this thread is stepping away from Bob Dylan and Leonard Cohen. One won already, and one died (sadly), and so I can't think of how they fit into the topic of future potential winners.

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    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    I am waiting for the day when a translator's name was thrown into the fray ... Edith Grossman , Gregory Rabassa ( I know, he is no more), Margaret Jull costa or Georges Szirtes ..
    Jayan



  20. #100

    Default Re: The Next Generation: Future Nobel Prizewinners?

    Quote Originally Posted by OverTheMountains View Post
    I would say that Eric Hobsbawm would have been a decent choice. I think that Eduardo Galeano would have been a better one though. E.P. Thompson as well, but as far as literary value goes I would say Galeano trumps him (Thompson, though, as a historian, was infinitely better and more important that Hobsbawm). I don't know of too many historians I would think would be worthy recipients and who are still around though. I suspect some would say Niall Ferguson and Jared Diamond, but they have no hope in winning based partially on politics and mostly (entirely) on the quality of their works.
    Neither of them (Diamond or Ferguson) is too much of a humanist, so they likely wouldn't qualify.

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