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Thread: Julio Cortázar: Hopscotch

  1. #21
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Titania,
    I don't have time now to answer your remarks now and unfortunately probably won't for a long while (I'm going away for 7 weeks as of saturday) but still, a couple of points.
    I find your continuous snide remarks about male viewpoints or attitudes particularly offending. I am also surprised that you're wondering why on earth someone would ask your opinion on the literary merits of the work AND still ask of you to explain yourself on the sadism bit. Who exactly did do that? I only asked the first part and didn't bring up sadism.
    On the content, you may be surprised to hear that most people I know (males, yes, males) do have very strong sympathies and feelings for La Maga. Such is not the case for Oliveira. Actually, echoes and tributes to La Maga can be found in many books by latin-american writers. I'm pretty sure Cortazar's way of depicting her treatment at the hands of her lover goes a long way to explaining this preferrence. In the passages you quote, it is clearly mentionned she has been "mistreated", a pretty negative word that whould indicate some degree of comdemnation on Cortazar's part. Furthermore, a single scene is a bit short. There is much to be found later on, for example more use of myths -- they might explain the scene you quote -- and, much more importantly, you might note La Maga is Horacio's muse -- more than a flesh and blood character, she is a metaphor of the meaning of a muse to an artist. Is the rape real or symbolical of the relation an artist might entertain at times with the muse? I think this is a pretty important question to ask oneself.
    Tabula Rasa, litblog (in French)

  2. #22
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    Argentina Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Fausto,
    I am very sorry you are offended by my remarks about men. I like men. In many ways I like them better than women. Perhaps you've misconstrued something here. Is that in any way possible? Not knowing me except via this list, it is unfair of you to judge me so harshly. You haven't any idea what my life experiences have been like. Do you? Perhaps I'm accustomed to men who denigrate women, who think women are inferior to men and who see nothing wrong with mistreating a woman. If so, maybe this does color my perception of the world. Would that be so hard to fathom?

    Let me ask you something: If 2/3 of the women you had known had been difficult, extremely aggressive females, would not this color your perception of women?? I've known men who have experienced dreadful situations with women who were unfaithful and cruel to them. I empathize with them. Honestly I do. I am fully cognizant of the fact that callous or unacceptable behavior can go both ways.

    I assumed you did wish me to explain further on the sexual sadism issue by saying that my first remark had been a "tad cryptic." Was I mistaken? If so, you have my deepest apologies, fausto.

    And I will re-iterate what I said a moment ago. I like men. I really do. The majority of my closest friends have always been and currently are men.

    I've also made it clear that I haven't read enough of Hopscotch to give a clear, definitive opinion of the work. Did you not see where I said that? This is why I'm reading it again. Honestly, you're making me wonder why I'm doing it at all. It's obvious from the tone of your post that you dislike me intensely. But since you don't really know me, I choose not to take it personally.

    And you may be surprised at what I'm about to say, but I understand why you dislike me. For one thing, I've said negative things about a book that obviously means a great deal to you.
    For another, I have said some less-than-glowing things about men.
    However, I wasn't referring to ALL men when I said "men." Some men, I'm sure, are very sympathetic towards women. I just haven't met very many of these men. Is that my fault? And has it been a crime for me to express my "take" on various books I read from an individualistic standpoint? I tend to think that preconceived ideas
    rule the world. We, both men and women, make assumptions, rather consciously or unconsciously, about everything. I'm not saying I'm perfect or that my opinions are written in stone. They're really just the views I have at one moment in time. Believe it or not, they could change tomorrow.

    Once more, my apologies, Fausto. Sincerely. And I hope we can put all this behind us. Is this possible, do you think?

    Safe travelling,
    Titania

    "Even a thought, even a possibility, can shatter us
    and transform us."
    ~Friedrich Wilhelm Nietzsche
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  3. #23
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Quote Originally Posted by titania7 View Post
    Fausto,
    Not knowing me except via this list, it is unfair of you to judge me so harshly.
    I indeed only have this list and being offended is not a judgement, it's a feeling. I don't judge you, I just tell you some things you are saying here are offensive.

    You haven't any idea what my life experiences have been like. Do you? Perhaps I'm accustomed to men who denigrate women, who think women are inferior to men and who see nothing wrong with mistreating a woman. If so, maybe this does color my perception of the world. Would that be so hard to fathom?
    You're right I have no idea. But it's completely irrelevant. You're making remarks and assumptions on men in this thread, men who actually post on this forum. And you generalize from past experience. This is exactly what some do about women ("all women are tarts"). It's a sexist behaviour.



    I assumed you did wish me to explain further on the sexual sadism issue by saying that my first remark had been a "tad cryptic." Was I mistaken? If so, you have my deepest apologies, fausto.
    It was a tad cryptic because you daid you were offended but didn't wish to elaborate. Your attitude to sadism, I couldn't care less.


    It's obvious from the tone of your post that you dislike me intensely.
    This is laughable. I never dislike intensely people I don't know. I intensely disagreed with some of what you said and made it clear. Huge difference.

    For one thing, I've said negative things about a book that obviously means a great deal to you.
    It doesn't mean a great deal, I think it's great and I'd like to have your opinion on it, not on the effects the literary representation of sadism can have on men. Especially when it's obvious Oliveira is not shown in a really positive light.

    For another, I have said some less-than-glowing things about men. However, I wasn't referring to ALL men when I said "men." Some men, I'm sure, are very sympathetic towards women. I just haven't met very many of these men. Is that my fault?
    No, it's not your fault. But it is, however, completely your fault that you initially chose to make sweeping generalization. Your current rectification is welcome.

    We talked about vantage points earlier, and this is what I was worried about. As we all do, you have your own experiences that shape your vision of what you're reading. But readers should be able to put their experience on their side to try and engage the book on its own terms, see what it is trying to achieve and take it from there. Personally, that's what I'm interested in. If you, as a reader, don't react that way, fine, let's drop it.
    Tabula Rasa, litblog (in French)

  4. #24
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Quote Originally Posted by fausto View Post
    As we all do, you have your own experiences that shape your vision of what you're reading. But readers should be able to put their experience on their side to try and engage the book on its own terms, see what it is trying to achieve and take it from there.
    I think that's the key right there.

  5. #25
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Thanks, Stewart.
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  6. #26
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    Argentina Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Fausto,
    I am doing my best to stop allowing my life experiences to color my perceptions of
    what I read. I'm still learning. Whether you believe me or not, I'm not a hard-headed, cynical, man-hating female. I hope I will never become one, either.

    But maybe I do come across as some sort of know-it-all? Certainly, that hasn't been my intention. I am SO far from perfect it's positively laughable. I make tons of mistakes every single day of my life and I try to learn from them (this is easier said than done).

    When I said you "dislike me intensely," I didn't mean that quite as seriously as it sounded. I guess what I meant to say is that you have disliked intensely some of the views I've shared about men. Because of this, you probably don't have the most positive impression of me as a person. Am I being presumptuous again or have I summed things up accurately? It's your call.

    You want my opinion on the book? Not a problem. But I have to read the entire thing first, and it will probably take me at least seven weeks. Given my current schedule, it could take even longer.

    It has crossed my mind that the Dorothy Parker quote I used in an earlier
    post might have been "too much." I actually used it in a spirit of fun, Parker being
    a very witty lady. I did dislike the parts of Hopscotch I read, but I wouldn't have literally thrown the book with "great force." I never throw books around. They're too important to me. Plus, this was a library copy .

    Have I really made "sweeping generalizations" about men? Where have I done that?
    I'm not saying I haven't. I'd just like a couple of examples, if you don't mind. To use the term generalizations implies I've made "blanket statements" (as in ALL men this or ALL men that). I don't recall using that terminology, fausto (correct me if I'm wrong).

    ~Titania

    "My trade and my art is living."
    ~Montaigne
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  7. #27
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    I once knew a man who, from watching so many movies where a woman said "No" when she really wanted sex, had developed the idea that "No" from a woman really means "Yes." But maybe this isn't an uncommon male viewpoint??
    Yes, it's common. We all think that way.

    I can just see men reading Hopscotch, thinking, "Yeah, I can treat a woman like this if I want to. Why not? It's not like anything terrible will happen if I do."
    Yes, we do think that.

    I just have a problem with men using, mistreating, or otherwise violating women, particularly when the women who are treated badly allow themselves to continue being hurt. Maybe this really is "a woman's thing"??
    Yes, it is a woman's thing. Men have no problem using and violating.

    --------------------------
    This is my last post on here on the subject of what offended me in your replies and I only provide this because you requested exmaples and you deserve them. Let's all move along now. Thanks.
    Tabula Rasa, litblog (in French)

  8. #28
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    Argentina Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Fausto,
    I assume it is alright with you if I correct a couple of things I said earlier.

    I was wrong in saying that Cortazar did not imply that Oliviera's behavior was
    unacceptable. When I read parts of this book a year ago, I didn't even remember the term "mistreatment" in connection to the relationship between Oliviera and La Maga.
    I have the book in my possession now. I see what you are speaking of.

    Secondly:

    Not knowing any of the men on this list, I have done my best to prevent myself from judging them. Sorry if anything I said *implied* I was making lots of assumptions.
    The important thing is, I wasn't.

    And...
    You're right. You weren't the person who asked me to explain what was sexually sadistic in this novel. That was Amanda. Not you. If you glance at her post you will see where she says she doesn't find Oliviera's behavior towards La Maga to be particularly sadistic. My response in this regard was directed at her. And she is fully entitled to her views, whatever they may be. I merely elucidated on mine per
    her request.

    Finally.....

    How's a lady to respond when you "call her on the carpet" regarding her comments about men?? Fausto, you and I both know that, posting my isolated remarks in the fashion you did, it made me look just terrible. Do I have a leg to stand on?

    I will state one thing, however, in my defense: The comments about "No" meaning "Yes" in regard to sex were from a male friend of mine--well, ex-friend now (long story, and this isn't the place for it). That was his actual opinion. Not mine. When I'm not in a cynical mood (which is most of the time) I don't honestly think men think/feel that way. But we all have moments in which we have a pessimistic view of life, don't we? I'm sure you can be negative at times, too.

    And how many times do I have to say this before I'm taking seriously?? I LIKE MEN.

    Please don't pick apart what I've said. It was all written in a spirit of peace.

    A literary critique of Hopscotch will be forthcoming sometime during the next several weeks.

    ~Titania

    "The right to be heard does not automatically
    include the right to be taken seriously."
    ~Hubert Humphrey
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  9. #29
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Eh. Sorry I didn't reply earlier, but I haven't had much access to the internet.

    From your post above my initial post, I assumed that you were already planning to reread the book and were open to discussing it (so that it wasn't an issue of the subject being triggering, etc.), but I'm sorry if I dragged you into a discussion you weren't really interested in having. I was/am sympathetic to the viewpoint that you and Jayaprakash discussed earlier of reconciling (or not) a novel or an author's abhorrent actions or attitudes with historical contingencies and the framework of the novel/their work, even if I seem too capable at compartmentalizing.

    I guess that part of the fault is mine in that I was not more explicit or more clear what I intended in my reply. I definitely did not read the novel as approving of Oliveira's behavior. (which is how I originally took your comment, and that I now see you've amended. I also wasn't sure if/was hoping that it was not a case of deciding a book's merit on how likable or relatable the main character is.) I was curious if it was a specific scene or the novel that you had read so far that way because to see it as condoning or celebrating his & the club's behavior ran almost entirely counter to how I read the novel.

    Regarding Oliveira specifically, I saw his behavior as more of a casual cruelty drawing from a self-centered/selfish focus on intellectual games at the expense of actually engaging and empathizing with other people (and this may be merely nitpicking or being overly pedantic), than that of actually intending and desiring to inflict harm and enjoying the fruits of his cruelties (or at least not most of the time - I don't disagree with your reading of the 5th chapter, though I did read it more in the mythological/metaphorical vein that fausto referenced earlier in the thread).

    Just because perhaps I've given intent too much of a role when, yes, the end result is pretty much the same doesn't mean I'd actually want to date him, much less do I condone his (or others' similar) behavior, though.

  10. #30
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    Argentina Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Amanda,
    Thank you, both for your views and for sharing them. As I've said before, I very much need to read the novel all the way through before giving my valid opinions of it. It looks like a complex read, and one that can be understood on a multitude of different levels.

    I have been filled with guilt all day over what has been perceived on this thread at this forum as an attack on men. Maybe I do need to work through some personal issues stemming from past experiences. But much of what I've said has been misinterpreted and exaggerated.

    It's true--I wasn't interested in having a discussion specifically about sexual sadism, Amanda, because I didn't really feel like re-iterating my feelings about rape (which have been explored already in the Andrei Makine thread). You know, after awhile, what I say begins to sound like a rant against men who mistreat women. It begins to seem as if I am saying there are no "decent" men in the world. And this is far from my intention. In fact, it is ludicrous.

    I did, in my last post to fausto, do my best to amend the errors I made when discussing this book in previous posts. At this point, I have a fear that most, if not all, things I say will be heavily dissected. I am regretful that I chose to speak of Hopscotch in as much detail as I did without having read the entire work. You cannot judge a book by a fragment here and there and give a fair assessment of a) its literary quality or even b) your personal opinion of it.

    Also, while I'm at it, let me include what I mean when I call myself a "feminist." I believe a) a woman should make the same amount of money as a man does for the same job, b) a woman is a man's intellectual equal, c) a woman is capable of fulfilling any role in society she so desires, whether it be that of a doctor, lawyer, or president, premier, or prime minister, and d) a woman's ultimate fulfillment does not depend on marriage and/or children.

    If being a feminist means I am a) only mildly tolerant of men, b) dislike men, c) believe women are superior to men, than I am NOT a feminist.

    I'm clarifying all this because my mum and I just had a long discussion about feminism tonight (What is a feminist exactly vs. what do others think of when they think of a feminist?). I don't know whether this would be your view of feminism also, Amanda.
    Perhaps many women have something much more radical in mind when they call themselves "feminists" ?? I don't. I just believe in equality of the sexes, basically. And since we live in 2008 (not the Victorian era), I don't frankly see anything controversial about my opinions. I am not some free-thinking radical looking for the next place to vent my anger on one issue or another. Yet it's possible this may be how some people at this forum have perceived me. To those who have--this is a complete and utter misconception. Trust me.

    I have wished many, many times that I had refrained from ever posting to this thread. If I had ever thought that the opinions of somebody like lit'l old moi would turn so many tables upside down, I'd have kept my mouth clamped shut.

    I'll look forward to understanding more of the mythological
    and metaphorical implications in Hopscotch as I read it, Amanda.

    And don't ever worry about how speedily you reply to my posts.
    Take all the time you need. No explanations necessary.

    Thanks again.

    Best,
    Titania


    "What matters in life is not what happens to you
    but what you remember and how you remember
    it."
    ~Gabriel Garcia Marquez
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  11. #31
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    Argentina Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    To Fausto and other men on this list:
    I scarcely know if this is the proper place to post this because I doubt that many of the men at this forum will go to this thread.
    However, I don't know of another place to say this that would be better.

    (note: Fausto, as you said your last post was your final one that would deal with my offensive remarks about men, I am not expecting a response. Not that I would mind one, assuming it's courteous.)

    But, just to clear the air a bit.......

    It was wrong of me to vent my feelings on *a certain type of man* so vehemently here. This was not the place to share my negative opinions. At the same time, re-reading what I've said, I've become aware that there's a lot of "emotional baggage" I need to personally work through. My mum and I have had two hour-long, very serious talks about my warped conceptions regarding men--or some men, I should say. Perhaps I have too much of a tendency to focus more on the handful of lousy men I have known than ALL the truly great guys out there.

    I'm not sure whether this would alter anyone's opinion of me, but the truth is, I'm every bit as upset about scenes in a book where MEN are mistreated. Just to give one example, there is a chapter in D.H. Lawrence's The Rainbow that was absolute torture for me to get through. The main female character in the book, Ursula, terribly mistreats a man whom she is supposed to be in love with. My difficulties with this encounter in the book actually prevented the book from making it on my list of top 50 books. The literary qualities of The Rainbow are first-rate (as is almost always the case with Lawrence), but my personal feelings tied to that scene ruined the impact the book might have had on me otherwise.

    I am actually (this would be hard to believe I know, but it's true) a soft-spoken, sweet, somewhat shy woman. Only about 1% of my personality "make-up" is tinged with cynicism or bitterness over ANYTHING, including male/female relationships. I am an enthusiastic, optimistic person totally in love with life. I honestly don't hate anyone.

    When I look back over the remarks I've made about men, I admit that some of them do sound extraordiarily negative. Unfairly so, in fact. And I ask forgiveness of any men who have read this comments. Hopefully, anyone who views me as a man-hater will be able to alter their opinion of me.

    You mention my "past experiences," Fausto. Although I had, from childhood, a troubled relationship with my father, who never wanted a girl child (in his mind, all women are pretty much without merit), most of my experiences are ones I take full responsibility for. I didn't have to go out with certain men nor did I have to keep certain male friends in my life. I've made many poor choices. This doesn't make it right that I have trouble putting my personal experiences aside to judge a work of literature solely on its own merits. I'm not saying it does. It's just a tendency.

    At any rate, I guess I've made a muck of things by making sure most men here think I detest men, on the whole. Yet, to quote a famous line from Bulgakov's Master and Margarita, "What's done
    cannot be undone."

    I can say I like men but the other things I've said about them makes my claims seem insincere. I recognize that. And it's not easy to attempt to rectify the situation--if, indeed, it can be rectified.

    I have not, however, given up all hope in this regard. Also, I would like to imagine my apologies meant something to someone here. I realize sometimes, once we perceive someone to be a certain way, it can be very difficult to adopt an incongruous view. But there is absolutely nothing more that I can do than ask forgiveness
    for my past behavior.

    Best,
    Titania

    "There is no worse lie than a truth misunderstood
    by those who hear it."
    ~William James
    Last edited by titania7; 18-Oct-2008 at 10:46.
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  12. #32
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Some of us who were offended, and I think I do speak for the truffle as well, don't judge nor care about xr character. This is the internet, you can be as fake as you want to, you can behave like a cranky old man and claim to be one, for all we care. So who you *really* are, is of lesser importance.

    On the internet, far more so than in real life, you are as you do. And what you did, was offensive to me, Fausto and, I trust, other men as well. The problem is not that

    It was wrong of me to vent my feelings on *a certain type of man* so vehemently here.
    The problem was the way in which you vented them. As Fausto's quotes demonstrate you vented the feelings in a sweeping manner, thereby including all of us under the heading of "a certain type of man", which I frankly resent.

    You did apologize for that, which is fine, but I feel you are too apologetic. There's no need to apologize for disliking a certain typoe of person, nor for being brash or a feminist. Feel good about yrself, but cut down on the generalizations.

    Also, and here I diverge from the grand M. Majistral, I guess, there's noone who reads a book solely on its literary merits. LIterary merits, as isolated phenomena, are a construction. We as readers are what makes literature be so alive and powerful. True, a large extent of this resides in the book, but a novel which is clearly written from a male pov is closely fit into a hioerarchy of power and if female readers don't dip into their own experience to unmoor those hierarchies, who else will do it? LIterature contains value judgments, which are due to certain axioms,which, in turn, can be linked to a certain position in the hierarchies of everyday life.

    De Man called that mechanism Blindness and Insight, the reader is in the position to illuminate the blindspots of the work of literature (yes, this in no way does justice to de man's brilliant essay),and many, many men have blind spot as far as the female experience is concerned. And yes, there are as many female experiences as there are women and my own experience provides me with a contrast to many patriarchially informed texts, but this is sketchy by necessity.

    In sum, while hurt by your remarks about men, I was also concerned by your ensuing apologetic behavior which covered far more than the small area where you were actually offensive. Straighten up. More power to you.

    NOt that I like your reviews, but that is a different matter.

    Cordially,

    M.
    Last edited by Mirabell; 18-Oct-2008 at 17:45.

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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Some of us who took no offense can still disagree. Separating where the author and narrator and protagonists are coming from can be a tricky business.

    Machismo is an operative concept in LatAmLit generally and in Cort?zar particularly. It may help to see what he has to say about it himself (interview cuts off midstream, but covers this ground before the interruption):

    A Conversation with Julio Cortazar by Evelyn Picon Garfield 10-13.7.73

    (and yes I consider Hopscotch/Rayeula one of the best and most important books of 20c LatAmLit)

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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Nnyhav,
    I wasn't able to pull up the link to the Cortazar interview.
    Is there another link I could try to access it through?
    My computer is problematic; so, it's possible
    that's why I'm unable to pull it up.

    Thanks.

    Best,
    Titania
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Sorry, can't help except to suggest you try, try again. (I had looked around for a complete version of the interview.)

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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Thanks, Nnyhav. I'll keep trying, then. I'm not a gal who gives up easily .

    ~Titania
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  17. #37
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    Argentina Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    [quote=Mirabell] On the internet, far more so than in real life, you are as you do. And what you did, was offensive to me, Fausto and, I trust, other men as well. The problem is not that . The problem was the way in which you vented them. As Fausto's quotes demonstrate you vented the feelings in a sweeping manner, thereby including all of us under the heading of "a certain type of man", which I frankly resent.

    Mirabell,
    I am regretful that you perceived that I was putting all of
    the men on the list under the "certain type of man" category.
    Are you sure this wasn't merely your "take" on what I said?
    I've looked back through all my posts and I don't see any comments
    that would indicate I was referring to all of you. Yes, I'm guilty of
    "sweeping generalizations," but there is a slight difference in
    that and in clumping all men on this list into the "certain type
    of man" category. Just my usage of the term "certain type of man" would indicate I didn't mean ALL men.

    [quote: You did apologize for that, which is fine, but I feel you are too apologetic. There's no need to apologize for disliking a certain type of person, nor for being brash or a feminist. Feel good about yrself, but cut down on the generalizations.

    I feel ok about myself. But I'll tell you something: I feel better about myself for the fact I was a big enough person to apologize to this
    entire list. "Little" people can rarely say they're sorry about anything, even when they are gravely in error. So, better to err
    on the side of over-apologizing than to be too much of a coward
    to apologize at all.

    [quote: Also, and here I diverge from the grand M. Majistral, I guess, there's noone who reads a book solely on its literary merits. LIterary merits, as isolated phenomena, are a construction. We as readers are what makes literature be so alive and powerful. True, a large extent of this resides in the book, but a novel which is clearly written from a male pov is closely fit into a hioerarchy of power and if female readers don't dip into their own experience to unmoor those hierarchies, who else will do it? LIterature contains value judgments, which are due to certain axioms,which, in turn, can be linked to a certain position in the hierarchies of everyday life.

    I agree with most of what you say.


    [quote: ....many, many men have a blind spot as far as the female experience is concerned....

    Yeah, well, many women have a blind spot where the male experience is concerned. Men and women still have a lot to learn
    about each other. But taking offense at the views I express isn't going to help anything. It would be my hope that you and others
    would try to learn something about women from hearing my comments instead. Namely, that intelligence and emotional intelligence are not necessarily linked. Look, I first attended college
    when I was seven years of age. Needless to say, I am a highly intelligent woman. Yet I've behaved stupidly many times when it's come to men. The comments I made here demonstrate how little of the emotional intelligence I possess I actually make use of (just the fact I shared so much about myself shows I can be less than sagacious). So, Mirabell, look beyond how I offended you and see if I've taught you anything. You're a smart guy--I'm certain you can find something positive that's come out of all this. Maybe you weren't as aware as you could've been of how deeply affected a clever, self-assured, educated woman can be from encounters with callous, uncaring men.

    [quote:] Straighten up. More power to you.

    Thanks. My mum's always telling me to "straighten up"...but that's in regard to my posture (though I used to be a model, it seems
    I have a habit of slumping. I need to start walking around with
    a book on my head, I guess).

    [quote]: NOt that I like your reviews, but that is a different matter.

    You never told me personally what you don't like about them .
    (but please don't post your opinions to the list).

    However, this reminds me of something a famous writer once said
    when someone told him they didn't like his most recent novel:

    "I didn't write it for you."

    Well, Mirabell, I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't write my reviews for you or any other specific person on this list. I learned long ago that it's impossible to please everyone; so, I don't even try.

    But, take heart! I may not be posting that much longer to this list, anyway. So....you'll be rid of me--and my reviews. I won't be leaving the list because of you, Fausto, or anyone else. The World Literature Forum has simply become an overwhelming distraction for me and I have a lot of goals completely unrelated to this list that I'm not currently accomplishing.

    By the way, have you read Hopscotch or any of Cortazar's other
    writings? I assume since you were reading the posts to this thread
    you must have an interest in his work.

    Cordially,
    Titania

    PS Thanks for taking the time to post a response to
    my apology. I appreciated it.

    "Has the world ever been changed by anything save
    the thought and its magic vehicle the Word?"
    ~Thomas Mann
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  18. #38
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    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    You wrote most of this in a pm already which I ignored because I have only so much time for lenthy internet discussions. Why are you reposting it here? To get an answer? My, you are are a spot of bother.


    So, Mirabell, look beyond how I offended you and see if I've taught you anything. You're a smart guy--I'm certain you can find something positive that's come out of all this. Maybe you weren't as aware as you could've been of how deeply affected a clever, self-assured, educated woman can be from encounters with callous, uncaring men.
    so...condescension and banalities. never a good mixture. I am guilty enough of that sort of thing myself, but that doesn't mean I should encourage it in others. the amount of trite and obvious things one says should be severely limited. Sybarite! Where is she when we need a (sub)editor so badly.

    Well, Mirabell, I hate to burst your bubble, but I don't write my reviews for you or any other specific person on this list.
    yeah...I know. does that mean I can't say I don't like them? oh the headaches.

    By the way, have you read Hopscotch or any of Cortazar's other
    writings? I assume since you were reading the posts to this thread
    you must have an interest in his work.
    "when you assume..."

  19. #39
    Join Date
    Sep 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Posts
    1,213

    Argentina Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Quote Originally Posted by Mirabelll
    You wrote most of this in a pm already which I ignored because I have only so much time for lenthy internet discussions. Why are you reposting it here? To get an answer? My, you are a spot of bother.
    I didn't write most of this in the private message I sent you.
    Come on, buddy--my message was mostly to ask you WHAT
    you didn't like about my reviews. You and I both know that.
    That was the entire purpose of my message to you.
    You never replied, which makes me wonder why you ever
    said you disliked my reviews. Didn't you expect me to
    want any details? Maybe you wouldn't care why someone
    didn't like something you had written. I do.

    Of course, for one thing, I'm not a supercilious, pompous person
    who thinks they a) know everything and b) that they can't improve anything about themselves. I happen to look at life as a learning
    experience. Obviously, you have a different vantage point.

    And, considering you post three ways--in addition to private messaging at the forum--that you can be contacted, it would
    seem you are wanting to discuss something with someone.

    [ quote:] so...condescension and banalities. never a good mixture. I am guilty enough of that sort of thing myself, but that doesn't mean I should encourage it in others.

    Ha! First of all, I wasn't condescending. That was YOUR interpretation of my words. It's all about your reaction to what
    I say--not what I actually say. Any psychologist worth his/her salt
    would tell you that.

    Secondly, if I had been condescending or had used banalities,
    if it's fine for you, it's fine for me.


    [quote:] the amount of trite and obvious things one says should be severely limited.

    Really? By whom, you? Who died and made you King??

    [quote:] Sybarite! Where is she when we need a (sub)editor so badly.

    Sybraite may still be reeling from the cocky attitude you demonstrated towards her in the "Book Mistakes" thread.
    Besides, I have a feeling that Sybarite isn't as petty and
    rude as you are. I don't think she'd have a problem with
    anything I've said.


    [quote:] yeah...I know. does that mean I can't say I don't like them (your reviews)? oh the headaches.

    You could always take some aspirin.

    [quote:] "when you assume..."[/quote]

    Hmmm....you're right. I did make an assumption about
    you and Cortazar. Now I can make yet another assumption:
    you haven't read any Cortazar.

    I see you are incapable of being "cordial" for very long. Too bad.
    I was starting to think I had misjudged you....(next I would've actually been starting to like you).

    ~Titania
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

  20. #40
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    Sep 2008
    Location
    Atlanta, Georgia
    Posts
    1,213

    Default Re: Julio Cort?zar: Hopscotch

    Mirabell,
    One more point of interest. I don't need an editor. I live with my mum who is a professional editor, not a sub-editor. And she's completely unbiased in regard to critiquing my work, including
    my posts to this forum.

    In other words, I don't need Sybarite's editing skills.

    ~Titania
    "All men have the same defect: they wait to live, for they have not the courage of each instant.
    Why not invest enough passion in each moment to make it an eternity?" ~E. M. Cioran

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