Nobel Prize in Literature 2021 Speculation

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The Common Reader

Well-known member
What is more representative of Ogawa's work? Because everything I've read has been very bad. At least by comparison The Housekeeper and the Professor seemed vaguely literary. I mean sure, she may have better stuff that's untranslated but Hotel Iris and Revenge were both 1/5 books me to and read like generic kink/bondage/spooky story junk. I can't imagine her remaining untranslated works are all vastly different in quality and subject matter.

The Memory Police fell flat for me in the same way that Samanta Schweblin's Little Eyes did, subject matter on authoritarianism and surveillance that's been beaten to death and isn't even remotely new being regurgitated in a way that's hardly profound or moving. It was clunky and most of its supposedly grand ideas seemed blatantly ripped out of a high school freshman English reading list (1984, Fahrenheit 451). Most Black Mirror episodes on Netflix do what this book was trying to do better.
I have a different take on Yoko Ogawa. And I can only, unfortunately, read her in translation. I found nothing prurient about the short sharp shock of Hotel Iris despite its graphic sadomasochistic subject matter. The novel is a gripping account of an unlikely encounter between two very damaged people. Among the things that linger in the mind after putting the book down is that rare feeling that not a single word was wasted.
Memory Police is absorbing in an entirely different way. The spareness of Ogawa’s prose is eerily suggestive of a dystopian island where entire categories of objects randomly disappear from the consciousness of most of the island’s inhabitants.
Le musée du silence, the French translation of Chinmoku hakubutsukan, a novel to my knowledge not yet available in English, involves a collection of objects, each of which was taken from its former owner after his/her death.
In each of these books, a psychological or metaphysical quandary is matched by an acute sense of the physical world in which Ogawa’s characters live.
I certainly hope she is on the Nobel committee’s radar.
 

Uemarasan

Reader
I have a different take on Yoko Ogawa. And I can only, unfortunately, read her in translation. I found nothing prurient about the short sharp shock of Hotel Iris despite its graphic sadomasochistic subject matter. The novel is a gripping account of an unlikely encounter between two very damaged people. Among the things that linger in the mind after putting the book down is that rare feeling that not a single word was wasted.
Memory Police is absorbing in an entirely different way. The spareness of Ogawa’s prose is eerily suggestive of a dystopian island where entire categories of objects randomly disappear from the consciousness of most of the island’s inhabitants.
Le musée du silence, the French translation of Chinmoku hakubutsukan, a novel to my knowledge not yet available in English, involves a collection of objects, each of which was taken from its former owner after his/her death.
In each of these books, a psychological or metaphysical quandary is matched by an acute sense of the physical world in which Ogawa’s characters live.
I certainly hope she is on the Nobel committee’s radar.

Indeed. She’s written over forty books. To judge her based on the very minuscule number that gets translated into English does her a great disservice. Unfortunately, she’s one of the many Japanese authors who cannot be fairly judged based on what’s available in English. She’s like Modiano: an author whose cumulative power lies in reading a great portion of her body of work.

Actually, I wouldn’t be able to fairly judge MOST Japanese authors if I can only read English. There are so many gaps in the literature, unless the name on the cover happens to be Murakami. They barely have any access to someone like Yuko Tsushima or Sawako Ariyoshi in their part of the world. Also, let’s just say that the best Japanese-to-English translators aren’t exactly working in fiction. They’re working in manga.

I’m glad Ogawa is quite well-represented in translation in France and that she’s very popular there.
 
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Papageno

Well-known member
Just a random question: What are your top 10 laureates since the prize's inception? Let's see how un/uniform our preferences are!

I like this question, but it is so hard to pick just 10. In no order, they would probably have to include:
1. Halldór Laxness
2. Knut Hamsun
3. Sigrid Undset
4. Patrick Modiano
5. Henryk Sienkiewicz
6. Alice Munro
7. Anatole France
8. Gabriel García Márquez
9. Roger Martin du Gard
10. Orhan Pamuk
 

Salixacaena

Active member
In my Library compilation I left out all of the Academy members (other than that new guy I hadn’t realized was a member). All of the members had lots of works out (although most of these appeared to be old internal notes compilations and internal logistical works).

What a fun shake-up it would be if after all of this they just awarded one of their own again😂

It’s almost been 50 years since the last time. Maybe they’re feeling smug enough to do it again
 
Speaking of the library, some developments for those who are interested.

Maryse Conde is now on 12, so up 3 from the last time I think we looked.
Ngugi wa Thiong'o is now on 9, which I think is up 2 from last time.
Atwood is now on 7, up 2 from last time.
Knausgaard's on 15, up 2 from last time.
Solstad is on 10, but I can't recall his numbers from last time. Back in August it was 2.
Adonis is on 8, up 3.
And Ernaux is now at 8, down 6 from 14.

I also had a quick look at a couple of other things.
- Most relatively recent laureates have no more than 3 books checked out. (I did a random selection about as far as back as Coetzee). The only exception is Handke with about 7, however he has 172 books lodged in the library in the first place, far more than most others.
- I can't see the general public using the library much, it doesn't offer books I imagine the general public want. There are 3 titles available by Stephen King,and about 5 from the whole ouvre of Henning Mankell....
 
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Leseratte

Well-known member
Do it-

Recs on Walcott, Milosz and Yeats are their collected poems, but if you dive into Morrison go with Song of Solomon (or Jazz) before Beloved. Walcott's Omeros is a staple, but if you want to go through a smaller volume I rec The Star-Apple Kingdom (or Sea Grapes).

I tried doing the top ten thing, but I'm too weak. Surrendered at a stuck nineteen.
Am I being to revolutionary if I ask you to list you nineteen?
 

Johnny

Well-known member
In no particular order:

  1. Simon
  2. Canetti
  3. Elytis
  4. Beckett
  5. Martinson
  6. Singer
  7. Szymborska
  8. Bellow
  9. Kertesz
  10. Alexievich
Great selections. Interesting to see Claude Simon being mentioned a few times. I’ve just finished reading WG Sebald bio and apparently Simon’s Les Jardins de Plantes was a very significant influence on Austerlitz. Is this where you would recommend to start?
 

Sisyphus

Reader
Speaking of the library, some developments for those who are interested.

Maryse Conde is now on 12, so up 3 from the last time I think we looked.
Ngugi wa Thiong'o is now on 9, which I think is up 2 from last time.
Atwood is now on 7, up 2 from last time.
Knausgaard's on 15, up 2 from last time.
Solstad is on 10, but I can't recall his numbers from last time. Back in August it was 2.
Adonis is on 8, up 3.
And Ernaux is now at 8, down 6 from 14.

I also had a quick look at a couple of other things.
- Most relatively recent laureates have no more than 3 books checked out. (I did a random selection about as far as back as Coetzee). The only exception is Handke with about 7, however he has 172 books lodged in the library in the first place, far more than most others.
- I can't see the general public using the library much, it doesn't offer books I imagine the general public want. There are 3 titles available by Stephen King,and about 5 from the whole ouvre of Henning Mankell....

Am I the only one who thinks something about the latest developements in the library is a little fishy? I think a few pages back, Ater, Lividius Ruber and V. pointed out that the due dates have dissappeared out of the blue.
 

Skinnyfists

Active member
I think it'd be weird to award it to Maryse Conde given she won unofficially in the absent year. She's garnered a lot of attention since that, with a whole set of reissues in Penguin Modern Classics. Does she really need to win twice, in effect? Can't see it happening.
 

Morbid Swither

Well-known member
I think it'd be weird to award it to Maryse Conde given she won unofficially in the absent year. She's garnered a lot of attention since that, with a whole set of reissues in Penguin Modern Classics. Does she really need to win twice, in effect? Can't see it happening.
I can, if and only if, they are unanimously impressed by the work. It does seem terribly unlikely, and yet it does seem like a writer who (in my opinion) deserves a wider audience and critical appreciation on a global scale has that now. I think that’s wonderful. But does she have that enchanting, undefinable yet apparently special quality they are looking for? Perhaps not.

Just an observation: Maryse Condé’s work has been increasingly more prominent in the U.S. Academic communities I am familiar with. It’s very likely that there has been an increase her nominations. Works like, Moi, Tituba and Segu are on syllabi at several universities in Texas, Oklahoma and Michigan (the extent of my knowledge as far as that goes).

And a theory: a simplistic view of her work would be to say that she is a major author of African diaspora literature. Based on some of our speculation, if Maryse Condé were being seriously considered, it would stand to reason that other Afro-Caribbean authors would be checked-out to compare and contrast, yeah?

edit: Based on quite a few queries in the catalog, it would appear that there are no other “similar” authors (Frankéttiene, Jamaica Kincaid, Edwidge Danticat, René Depestre, Patrick Chamoisseau; nor significant amounts of scholarly writings on Afro-Caribbean authors, of which their library has many) checked out, at this time. But this could be very myopic and reductive. Perhaps they are comparing her to Ngugi wa Thiong’o and other continental African writers?

As far as Condé is concerned, I just hope she was given a fair chance and considered despite the absurd Alternative Nobel, regardless of whether or not she wins.
 
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hayden

Well-known member
Speaking of the library, some developments for those who are interested.

Maryse Conde is now on 12, so up 3 from the last time I think we looked.
Ngugi wa Thiong'o is now on 9, which I think is up 2 from last time.
Atwood is now on 7, up 2 from last time.
Knausgaard's on 15, up 2 from last time.
Solstad is on 10, but I can't recall his numbers from last time. Back in August it was 2.
Adonis is on 8, up 3.
And Ernaux is now at 8, down 6 from 14.

Am I the only one who thinks something about the latest developements in the library is a little fishy?

It does feel a little... 'odds-heavy'. I mean... Conde/Thiong'o/Atwood/Adonis (even Knausgaard) are kinda... bookmaker favourites.

Between that and the removal of due dates (kinda), there might be some legit diversion tactics on the SA's part.

OR, hopefully not, and Thiong'o will finally win :D

Am I being to revolutionary if I ask you to list you nineteen?

Might post it in a bit. I'll try to boil it down first 😅
 

hayden

Well-known member
Also, I will once again note (like last year), the Nobel's social media recently tweeted out the term 'writer(s)' in reference to this years 'winner(s)'.

And they had that thing about literature laureate ties not too long ago too.

Who knows.
 

Bartleby

Moderator
Am I the only one who thinks something about the latest developements in the library is a little fishy? I think a few pages back, Ater, Lividius Ruber and V. pointed out that the due dates have dissappeared out of the blue.
well, we'll know it come 7 October, so needless to say any strong statements are nothing but speculation, but I feel that (if the Library is still a reliable source, and assuming the Academy is not toying with us) since the Academy does their in-depth readings of the 5 shortlisted authors for this year's prize during summer, all these names that have popped up after this period cannot be seriously considered, especially now that the Academy is already having their meetings and discussing the merits of each author, so the winner should be one of the authors we've seen most checked out from the library in June-August...
 
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redhead

Blahblahblah
Great selections. Interesting to see Claude Simon being mentioned a few times. I’ve just finished reading WG Sebald bio and apparently Simon’s Les Jardins de Plantes was a very significant influence on Austerlitz. Is this where you would recommend to start?

I haven’t read Les Jardins de Plantes, but The Flanders Road is great and generally regarded as his best book. I think it’s also the only one of his works still in print in English, so it might be easiest to find.

well, we'll know it come 7 October, so needless to say any strong statements are nothing but speculation, but I feel that (if the Library is still a reliable source, and assuming the Academy is not toying with us) since the Academy does their in-depth readings of the 5 shortlisted authors for this year's prize during summer, all these names that have popped up after this period cannot be seriously considered, especially now that the Academy is already having their meetings and discussing the merits of each author, so the winner should be one of the authors we've seen most checked out from the library in June-August...

I think they’re either now reading some perennial candidates who they may not have had to read in depth earlier, as they’ve already read their works in previous years; comparing the shortlisted authors to others; have started checking out random authors so it’s unclear who’s actually under consideration; or some combination of those.
 

ministerpumpkin

Well-known member
I haven’t read Les Jardins de Plantes, but The Flanders Road is great and generally regarded as his best book. I think it’s also the only one of his works still in print in English, so it might be easiest to find.

I enjoyed The Flanders Road as well, and early next year the wonderful NYRB will be putting out a new edition:

 

Leseratte

Well-known member
I can, if and only if, they are unanimously impressed by the work. It does seem terribly unlikely, and yet it does seem like a writer who (in my opinion) deserves a wider audience and critical appreciation on a global scale has that now. I think that’s wonderful. But does she have that enchanting, undefinable yet apparently special quality they are looking for? Perhaps not.

Just an observation: Maryse Condé’s work has been increasingly more prominent in the U.S. Academic communities I am familiar with. It’s very likely that there has been an increase her nominations. Works like, Moi, Tituba and Segu are on syllabi at several universities in Texas, Oklahoma and Michigan (the extent of my knowledge as far as that goes).

And a theory: a simplistic view of her work would be to say that she is a major author of African diaspora literature. Based on some of our speculation, if Maryse Condé were being seriously considered, it would stand to reason that other Afro-Caribbean authors would be checked-out to compare and contrast, yeah?

edit: Based on quite a few queries in the catalog, it would appear that there are no other “similar” authors (Frankéttiene, Jamaica Kincaid, Edwidge Danticat, René Depestre, Patrick Chamoisseau; nor significant amounts of scholarly writings on Afro-Caribbean authors, of which their library has many) checked out, at this time. But this could be very myopic and reductive. Perhaps they are comparing her to Ngugi wa Thiong’o and other continental African writers?

As far as Condé is concerned, I just hope she was given a fair chance and considered despite the absurd Alternative Nobel, regardless of whether or not she wins.
In the specific case of the point of view of the novel I see some similarity between Condé´s "Io, Tituba..." and Rys "Great Sargasso Sea". Both novels are told from the point of view of a character that has no voice in the first story.
 

nagisa

Spiky member
I enjoyed The Flanders Road as well, and early next year the wonderful NYRB will be putting out a new edition:

I'd say the Flanders Road as well. I love Simon and I'm slowly working through his entire œuvre; Le jardin des plantes is late Simon, and I'm not quite there yet. Simon likes to reuse motifs and images from work to work, and IMHO he benefits from reading from early to later stuff, it gives extra resonance. But then again I've gone through a sort of middle period of his where these vanish almost completely behind a more formalist, painterly symphony of images. He's definitely in my top ten:

(chronogical order)
Undset
Beckett
White
Simon
Morrison
Saramago
Kertesz
Coetzee
Le Clézio
Alexievitch

Jelinek should actually be in there, but I don't speak German well enough.
 
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