Mirabell
Former Member
full, somewhat boring review, is here Ngugi wa Thiong’o: Weep not, Child shigekuni.
I really need to finally finish Wizard of the Crow.
Ngugi wa Thiong'o: Weep not, Child
- Thread starter Mirabell
- Start date
full, somewhat boring review, is here Ngugi wa Thiong’o: Weep not, Child shigekuni.
I really need to finally finish Wizard of the Crow.
waalkwriter
Reader
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
My god Mirabell. You make me feel disgustingly inadequate. Such a wonderful reviews, as all of your critical writings are. Really, I've rarely found critics who speak with such eloquence and love as you do, even if its often on a book that doesn't and probably wouldn't appeal to me your enthusiasm is still contagious. And it's so wonderful how you seem to like almost everything you read.
I only wish I could express myself so cleanly and sharply, but unfortunately the more I like a book, (or hate it), the more muddled my expression of the experience becomes. There's always the nagging inhibition that the expression of the experience cheapens it, or in some way, particularly for some novels, ruins it by breaking the wordless wonderment, the wordless collusion and mixture of conflicted and varied emotions. However whenever I read a review like yours it makes me wish I could for a moment share my passion for a novel so well, so fluidly. It has convinced me to give Ngugi a shot, though I think I will start with The Wizard and the Crow though.
I find it interesting that he's spent his entire life criticizing the west, criticizing western culture, and yet he chooses to make his home there, to teach there, to translate his own books into English. It's ironic, sickening, disheartening to read how when he finally returned to tour Kenya after decades of exile, his apartment was broken into and robbed, and he was beaten and his wife raped.
My god Mirabell. You make me feel disgustingly inadequate. Such a wonderful reviews, as all of your critical writings are. Really, I've rarely found critics who speak with such eloquence and love as you do, even if its often on a book that doesn't and probably wouldn't appeal to me your enthusiasm is still contagious. And it's so wonderful how you seem to like almost everything you read.
I only wish I could express myself so cleanly and sharply, but unfortunately the more I like a book, (or hate it), the more muddled my expression of the experience becomes. There's always the nagging inhibition that the expression of the experience cheapens it, or in some way, particularly for some novels, ruins it by breaking the wordless wonderment, the wordless collusion and mixture of conflicted and varied emotions. However whenever I read a review like yours it makes me wish I could for a moment share my passion for a novel so well, so fluidly. It has convinced me to give Ngugi a shot, though I think I will start with The Wizard and the Crow though.
I find it interesting that he's spent his entire life criticizing the west, criticizing western culture, and yet he chooses to make his home there, to teach there, to translate his own books into English. It's ironic, sickening, disheartening to read how when he finally returned to tour Kenya after decades of exile, his apartment was broken into and robbed, and he was beaten and his wife raped.
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
When I was at school in Nairobi, we read Ngugi wa Thiong'o in Gikuyu (Wizard of the Crow as Mũrogi wa Kagogo) which wasn't easy because there are four major dialects in Gikuyu and my understanding of them was poor. The English translation was adulterated and read almost as a different book.
I have some early editions of his works which still give the author's name as James Ngugi -- but the same critique of colonialism is evident. There is nothing unusual about African writers living, working and publishing in the West and the history of the post-colonial diaspora has been well-documented. Kenya is a deeply divided and troubled society, something not always understood by the tourists who are looking for an 'Out of Africa' daydream and crime is on the increase.
The best commentaries on Ngugi wa Thiong'o's significance and how he is read by younger Kenyan and diaspora writers (the critique in East Africa has shifted to neo-globalism) are those by Binyavanga Wainaina. I'm not sure if there are any online --
My own personal favourite although she is unlikely to be nominated for the Nobel prize, is Marjorie Oludhe Macgoye (Coming to Birth).
Ningatho niundu wakumenya gikuyu? Anyone here speak Gikuyu?
Mary
When I was at school in Nairobi, we read Ngugi wa Thiong'o in Gikuyu (Wizard of the Crow as Mũrogi wa Kagogo) which wasn't easy because there are four major dialects in Gikuyu and my understanding of them was poor. The English translation was adulterated and read almost as a different book.
I have some early editions of his works which still give the author's name as James Ngugi -- but the same critique of colonialism is evident. There is nothing unusual about African writers living, working and publishing in the West and the history of the post-colonial diaspora has been well-documented. Kenya is a deeply divided and troubled society, something not always understood by the tourists who are looking for an 'Out of Africa' daydream and crime is on the increase.
The best commentaries on Ngugi wa Thiong'o's significance and how he is read by younger Kenyan and diaspora writers (the critique in East Africa has shifted to neo-globalism) are those by Binyavanga Wainaina. I'm not sure if there are any online --
My own personal favourite although she is unlikely to be nominated for the Nobel prize, is Marjorie Oludhe Macgoye (Coming to Birth).
Ningatho niundu wakumenya gikuyu? Anyone here speak Gikuyu?
Mary
waalkwriter
Reader
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
I Gikuyu at all related to Swahilli? Not that I know a word of Swahilli either. Sorry, but my area of studies is Europe. The extent of my lifelong ambitions, language-wise, would be to learn all the Germanic languages, plus maybe French. Oddly enough my school's library had far more books of critical studies on Thiong'o than actual books by him; 8 critical analysis's/biographies, and only two books, Petals of Blood and a The Grain of Wheat.
I Gikuyu at all related to Swahilli? Not that I know a word of Swahilli either. Sorry, but my area of studies is Europe. The extent of my lifelong ambitions, language-wise, would be to learn all the Germanic languages, plus maybe French. Oddly enough my school's library had far more books of critical studies on Thiong'o than actual books by him; 8 critical analysis's/biographies, and only two books, Petals of Blood and a The Grain of Wheat.
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
There are about 65 languages spoken in Kenya. Gikuyu is heard most often in the Central Province and comes from a 'Bantu' language family, in contrast to Nilotic languages in the west and then there are the Cushitic languages of the north-east -- kiSwahili is closer to this although the Arabic influence is very strong. Swahili is traditionally the language of the coastal peoples of Kenya and Tanzania.
Here in South Africa we have 11 official languages: I speak Xhosa with reasonable fluency but there are 16 dialects of Xhosa and I only know two. I understand Sotho but again only certain southern Sotho speakers understand me wneh I speak Sotho. Complicated!
I have read Petals of Blood only in translation --
Mary
There are about 65 languages spoken in Kenya. Gikuyu is heard most often in the Central Province and comes from a 'Bantu' language family, in contrast to Nilotic languages in the west and then there are the Cushitic languages of the north-east -- kiSwahili is closer to this although the Arabic influence is very strong. Swahili is traditionally the language of the coastal peoples of Kenya and Tanzania.
Here in South Africa we have 11 official languages: I speak Xhosa with reasonable fluency but there are 16 dialects of Xhosa and I only know two. I understand Sotho but again only certain southern Sotho speakers understand me wneh I speak Sotho. Complicated!
I have read Petals of Blood only in translation --
Mary
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
Numbers of languages and dialects are crucial.
With languages, some will inevitably suffer neglect and wizen away. Mary LA has reliably informed us that Kenya has 65 languages, and South Africa has 11 official ones. Now, not even the best organised, richest country in the West (e.g. Sweden, where I live) could cope, in sheer volume, with such large numbers of languages.
You have to have a lingua franca or one national language or, at the most, two (e.g. Finland) or three (e.g. Belgium). Otherwise the country remains fragmented and tribal. You can blame the European imperialists of the 19th century for insensitively drawing the borders between the present-day African countries. But you cannot live in a poor country, a country where there is constantly the threat of internecine tribal warfare, with 65 languages at the level of education, commerce and everyday communication, never mind culture.
It's a marvellous situation for linguists who come, examine a language, then go away again. But most ordinary people aren't linguists. They want to communicate on everyday matters. The reason that India works linguistically is because, despite the enormous numbers of languages, most official inter-regional communication occurs in Hindi or English.
Again, with Xhosa, if there are 16 dialects, you can set up a hotel for visiting comparative linguists. But with such a fragmented language, I presume that someone has had to make decisions as to which is the standard or standardised dialect, that is then used officially.
Britain and Sweden both have lots of dialects (some very strong!) and versions of the language. But there is more or less one accepted national version for each country, used for standard communication and literature.
There must be an element of realism employed. When South Africa shook off the yoke of apartheid, it was no doubt a great and liberating idea to have 11 national languages. But as with the European Union (which has about 22) the sheer volume of paperwork and translation becomes crazy. So in Brussels, the only languages used for most communication are English, French and German.
Numbers of languages and dialects are crucial.
With languages, some will inevitably suffer neglect and wizen away. Mary LA has reliably informed us that Kenya has 65 languages, and South Africa has 11 official ones. Now, not even the best organised, richest country in the West (e.g. Sweden, where I live) could cope, in sheer volume, with such large numbers of languages.
You have to have a lingua franca or one national language or, at the most, two (e.g. Finland) or three (e.g. Belgium). Otherwise the country remains fragmented and tribal. You can blame the European imperialists of the 19th century for insensitively drawing the borders between the present-day African countries. But you cannot live in a poor country, a country where there is constantly the threat of internecine tribal warfare, with 65 languages at the level of education, commerce and everyday communication, never mind culture.
It's a marvellous situation for linguists who come, examine a language, then go away again. But most ordinary people aren't linguists. They want to communicate on everyday matters. The reason that India works linguistically is because, despite the enormous numbers of languages, most official inter-regional communication occurs in Hindi or English.
Again, with Xhosa, if there are 16 dialects, you can set up a hotel for visiting comparative linguists. But with such a fragmented language, I presume that someone has had to make decisions as to which is the standard or standardised dialect, that is then used officially.
Britain and Sweden both have lots of dialects (some very strong!) and versions of the language. But there is more or less one accepted national version for each country, used for standard communication and literature.
There must be an element of realism employed. When South Africa shook off the yoke of apartheid, it was no doubt a great and liberating idea to have 11 national languages. But as with the European Union (which has about 22) the sheer volume of paperwork and translation becomes crazy. So in Brussels, the only languages used for most communication are English, French and German.
waalkwriter
Reader
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
I don't think it's problematic to have large, general language groups preserved, and then maybe a half dozen major languages used for public work, like in Europe, but a country cannot function when, after traveling 10 miles, people can no longer understand each other.
The question of dialects strikes me as odd. Half a dozen dialects? Does one speak a dialect? I can understand someone from Scotland, or Ireland, or Wales, despite their very different accent and different local words and terms and occasionally odd grammar, does that mean I understand those dialects of English? I even, believe it or not, have a natural knack for following pidgin, but I still wouldn't say it's something I had to study or learn, like a whole 'nother language.
Anyway, off topic. I agree with Eric, many of these African nations need to be more strict about unifying the nation and creating 2-3 common languages. Like, say, in Kenya, just having Swahili, English and Gikuyu.
I don't think it's problematic to have large, general language groups preserved, and then maybe a half dozen major languages used for public work, like in Europe, but a country cannot function when, after traveling 10 miles, people can no longer understand each other.
The question of dialects strikes me as odd. Half a dozen dialects? Does one speak a dialect? I can understand someone from Scotland, or Ireland, or Wales, despite their very different accent and different local words and terms and occasionally odd grammar, does that mean I understand those dialects of English? I even, believe it or not, have a natural knack for following pidgin, but I still wouldn't say it's something I had to study or learn, like a whole 'nother language.
Anyway, off topic. I agree with Eric, many of these African nations need to be more strict about unifying the nation and creating 2-3 common languages. Like, say, in Kenya, just having Swahili, English and Gikuyu.
peter_d
Reader
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
Impossible. Language is something people offer up their lives for. In fact the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971 is said to have been for an important part about language.
Imagine what the Luo and Luya would feel (and probably do) if Gikuyu was going to be announced one of the three official national languages. I'd rather get out of here quickly if that would happen. Swahili as an national language works to some extent in Kenya and Tanzania. Maybe the issue here is less about language than about tribal divisions...
Ngugi Wa Thiong'o is well known and well read here in Kenya, mainly because some of his books are required reading in the national curriculum for secondary school. But I don't have the impression that he's that much of a national hero here. Perhaps because he's living far away in America or because literature is only an issue for a really small part of the nation or... yet, because most people see him mainly as a Gikuyu and less as a Kenyan. I don't know...
Impossible. Language is something people offer up their lives for. In fact the liberation war of Bangladesh in 1971 is said to have been for an important part about language.
Imagine what the Luo and Luya would feel (and probably do) if Gikuyu was going to be announced one of the three official national languages. I'd rather get out of here quickly if that would happen. Swahili as an national language works to some extent in Kenya and Tanzania. Maybe the issue here is less about language than about tribal divisions...
Ngugi Wa Thiong'o is well known and well read here in Kenya, mainly because some of his books are required reading in the national curriculum for secondary school. But I don't have the impression that he's that much of a national hero here. Perhaps because he's living far away in America or because literature is only an issue for a really small part of the nation or... yet, because most people see him mainly as a Gikuyu and less as a Kenyan. I don't know...
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
So true Peter -- if anyone attempted to remove one of South Africa's 11 official languages, there would be mayhem. Sometimes I wish commenters from the global north would just ask those of us who live in Africa about how communication works and why languages are important rather than just making assumptions. Diversity and polylingual understandings are part of the given and enrich rather than just being inconvenient.
Although I must say that what passes for 'socio-political commentary' on this forum is one of the more amusing and wacky aspects...
Mary
So true Peter -- if anyone attempted to remove one of South Africa's 11 official languages, there would be mayhem. Sometimes I wish commenters from the global north would just ask those of us who live in Africa about how communication works and why languages are important rather than just making assumptions. Diversity and polylingual understandings are part of the given and enrich rather than just being inconvenient.
Although I must say that what passes for 'socio-political commentary' on this forum is one of the more amusing and wacky aspects...
Mary
waalkwriter
Reader
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
There were a lot more issues at stake with Bangladesh. It was a strange marriage based on absolutely nothing but Religion and lacking everything else, including physical continuity.
And Mary, I don't think your view is that justified. As others have pointed out, because of such problems with language there is almost no sense of national unity that would be required to bring such countries into the 21st century and beyond fragmented tribal divisions that have been a major cause of violence. I don't withhold criticize from anything, I call it like I see it, with all areas of the globe and all manners of politicians, peoples, and cultures, there's good and there's bad and one should always try to tackle the negative aspects that need to be reformed.
There were a lot more issues at stake with Bangladesh. It was a strange marriage based on absolutely nothing but Religion and lacking everything else, including physical continuity.
And Mary, I don't think your view is that justified. As others have pointed out, because of such problems with language there is almost no sense of national unity that would be required to bring such countries into the 21st century and beyond fragmented tribal divisions that have been a major cause of violence. I don't withhold criticize from anything, I call it like I see it, with all areas of the globe and all manners of politicians, peoples, and cultures, there's good and there's bad and one should always try to tackle the negative aspects that need to be reformed.
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
There are many problems in South Africa but having 11 official languages is really not one of the "negative aspects that need to be reformed". I am proud of the fact that we had chosen to acknowledge all our cultures in this way. Identity is tied with language and you cannot unify different cultures by forcing some of them to change into another one. Who will make these decisions and on what bases? How will there not be conflict? The individual languages are not just dear to linguists flying in to study them but also to the people who speak them. I think it is a bit arrogant to think that the problems that come with cultural differences could be solved so easily by just making a rule about official languages.
There are many problems in South Africa but having 11 official languages is really not one of the "negative aspects that need to be reformed". I am proud of the fact that we had chosen to acknowledge all our cultures in this way. Identity is tied with language and you cannot unify different cultures by forcing some of them to change into another one. Who will make these decisions and on what bases? How will there not be conflict? The individual languages are not just dear to linguists flying in to study them but also to the people who speak them. I think it is a bit arrogant to think that the problems that come with cultural differences could be solved so easily by just making a rule about official languages.
waalkwriter
Reader
Re: Ngugi wa Thiong?o: Weep not, Child
Absolutely. What I meant by that was not that languages need to be eliminated, rather people need to be able to communicate with each other. People need to know not just their tribal language, but a national language as well.
And while I am all for preserving culture and identity, at what point does this become a negative force? Is it still worth preserving even after it becomes a source of violent interactions between different ethnic groups? Or is it still worth preserving to the point where it leaves a volatile and fragmented nation-state? I don't know. I don't have the answers, but they are valid questions.
Absolutely. What I meant by that was not that languages need to be eliminated, rather people need to be able to communicate with each other. People need to know not just their tribal language, but a national language as well.
And while I am all for preserving culture and identity, at what point does this become a negative force? Is it still worth preserving even after it becomes a source of violent interactions between different ethnic groups? Or is it still worth preserving to the point where it leaves a volatile and fragmented nation-state? I don't know. I don't have the answers, but they are valid questions.