Octavio Paz

Cleanthess

Dinanukht wannabe
Lots of people don't read translated poetry. At best it's a shadow of the original, at worse it is a distorted image resembling very little the original poem. However, just because cheese is not milk and ham is not beef it does not mean that byproducts are not tasty too.

Nobel Prize winning poet Octavio Paz was a firm believer in and devoted practitioner of translated poetry. He published his collected translations, Versiones y Diversiones (Versions and Fun) in three editions 1973, 1978 and 1995, each edition growing larger than the previous one.

In the first edition of Versions and Fun Octavio Paz published his translations of many poets from England (Donne), America and France (Eluard, Apollinaire), Sweeden and Portugal (Pessoa), India, Japan and China (Wang Wei), including Basho's famous 'Araumi ya/ Sado ni yokotau/ amanogawa' as 'Tendido fluye del mar bravo a la isla: río de estrellas'.

I still remember the first time I read that poem by Basho. I was undergoing Japanese language training at Tokyo and at the section of the library reserved for foreign students there was a 3 volume hardcover anthology of haiku; I'd never read any haiku before, I opened it at random and read those immortal Japanese words rendered in romaji, and the sound of that little poem impressed me so much, I still haven't forgotten it. By the way, it can be translated as 'Over the rough sea/ Flowing towards Sado isle/ The River of Heaven'. Or as 'Rough and wild sea/ Stretching to Sado / Our galaxy of stars '.

In any case, Octavio Paz, besides being an enormously erudite writer, was also a very fun and creative poet. In the Quignard vs Paz thread I already published translations of some of the best of Paz poetry. Let me just add a little thing to display his playful side:

La Calle/The Street

It is a long and silent street.
I walk in darkness: I stumble and fall
and get up and with blind feet I step upon
the silent stones and the dry leaves,
someone behind me also steps upon them:
if I stop, he stops; if I run, he runs. I look back,
and seeing nobody there, I yell: 'Who's there'.
Everything seems dark and without exit,
and I keep ending up at the same corners
always facing the same street
where nobody awaits for me or follows me
where I follow a man who stumbles
and gets up and blindly yells at me: 'Who's there'.

Es una calle larga y silenciosa.
Ando en tinieblas y tropiezo y caigo
y me levanto y piso con pies ciegos
las piedras mudas y las hojas secas
y alguien detrás de mí también las pisa:
si me detengo, se detiene;
si corro, corre. Vuelvo el rostro: nadie.
Todo está oscuro y sin salida,
y doy vueltas en esquinas
que dan siempre a la calle
donde nadie me espera ni me sigue,
donde yo sigo a un hombre que tropieza
y se levanta y dice al verme: nadie.
 

Heteronym

Reader
That is a funny poem, in Spanish. Funny, I bought Paz' book of poems in English and don't remember this one from it, but truth be said I didn't like the book very much. Perhaps I need to re-read it.

But I have a question about your translation: why are you turning nadie into 'Who's there'? Doesn't nadie mean no one or nothing?
 

Cleanthess

Dinanukht wannabe
That is a funny poem, in Spanish. Funny, I bought Paz' book of poems in English and don't remember this one from it, but truth be said I didn't like the book very much. Perhaps I need to re-read it.

But I have a question about your translation: why are you turning nadie into 'Who's there'? Doesn't nadie mean no one or nothing?

As usual, you're right Heteronym, better renderings would be:

I look back: there's nobody there
I look back: nobody
(…)
and gets up and seeing me says: there's nobody there
and gets up and seeing me says: nobody.

But these renderings keep the ambiguity of the original poem alive. When I first read the poem in English translation, I didn't like the general effect because of the opaque meaning. So I decided to impoverish the poem by forcing one interpretation over others. I forced the poem to be about blindness: scared blind people will yell 'who's there', instead of just looking around and saying 'there's nobody there' -nadie-; that is also why I removed the 'dice al verme' from the last line of the second narrator and added 'and seeing nobody there, I yell: 'Who's there?' to the last line of the first narrator.

As for the English translation of Paz poetry, the editor did a poor job. The poems would have greatly benefited from being grouped thematically, since Paz contained many different poets like Pessoa, and reading his similar poems together makes for a more memorable experience, since each poem expands upon the previous one. To top it off, many weak poems were included and some great ones were left out, the end result being a forgettable book made out of unforgettable poems. It's like when you mix sugar, salt, vinegar, coffee, catchup, mayo, fish sauce and coca cola into one drink: each individual ingredient is tasty, but the melange is not.
 

Remora

Reader
Cleanthess,

In tinieblas of the second line, is the s silent? If I remember my Spanish, it is indeed silent.
 

Cleanthess

Dinanukht wannabe
Cleanthess,

In tinieblas of the second line, is the s silent? If I remember my Spanish, it is indeed silent.

Remora, that's one complicated question. I picked the little Spanish I know piecemeal and by accretion, so I'm not the best judge of grammar. All I know is that when it comes to the proper usage of tinieblas/tiniebla I am appropriately in the dark.
On the other hand StevieB just mentioned Mario Benedetti on the film thread and this gives me the serendipitous chance to translate a Tiniebla poem by Benedetti:

La buena tiniebla/The good darkness
Mario Benedetti

A kobo with back light in the dark
emits a glow that gives you confidence,
to such extent that even if you experience
a blackout or despair
it is to be desired and even essential
to have on hand a paper white kindle.

then the walls will go watercolor
the ceiling will become like the sky
the cobwebs will shake in their corner
the calendars will turn into Sunday.
and the happy eyes and cat-like
will never get tired of watching and watch
the nook glow light in the dark,
currently loved or yet to be loved
it exorcises death at least for this once.


Una mujer desnuda y en lo oscuro
genera un resplandor que da confianza
de modo que si sobreviene
un apagón o un desconsuelo
es conveniente y hasta imprescindible
tener a mano una mujer desnuda.

entonces las paredes se acuarelan
el cielo raso se convierte en cielo
las telarañas vibran en su ángulo
los almanaques dominguean
y los ojos felices y felinos
miran y no se cansan de mirar.

una mujer desnuda y en lo oscuro
una mujer querida o a querer
exorcisa por una vez la muerte.

This being a family friendly forum I had to replace mujer desnuda for the next best thing: a Kindle or Nook or Kobo or ...
 
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Remora

Reader
Cleanthess,

I'm much obliged; I was about to Google Kobo, and you saved me the trouble. The poem has me utterly baffled. Yet, my enjoyment of it hasn't been deterred by a jot. :)
 

Daniel del Real

Moderator
Cleanthess,

In tinieblas of the second line, is the s silent? If I remember my Spanish, it is indeed silent.

The only silent letter in Spanish is h, so s in tinieblas isn't silent . Otherwise it would make it sound like singular and not the plural it is :)
 

Moldura

New member
Hi there !
I love the poems of Octavio Paz to !
Can you maybe help me with the translation to English of the original Spanish poem 'Frente al mar' ?
I can't find it anywhere.


Frente al mar

1

¿La ola no tiene forma?
En un instante se esculpe
y en otro se desmorona
en la que emerge, redonda.
Su movimiento es su forma.

2

Las olas se retiran
?ancas, espaldas, nucas?
pero vuelven las olas
?pechos, bocas, espumas?.

3

Muere de sed el mar.
Se retuerce, sin nadie,
en su lecho de rocas.
Muere de sed de aire.



Thanks in advance!
 

Cleanthess

Dinanukht wannabe
1
Does the wave have no shape?
It builds up one instant
and the next one, collapses
from which it emerges, round.
Its form in its motions found.

2

The waves first go back
limbs, backsides, necks?
then the waves go forth
breasts, mouths, froth?

3

Dying of thirst the sea.
It twists and turns, by itself,
on its rocky coastal shelf.
It dies thirsting for air.

No problem.
 

Ludus

Reader
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Ben Jackson

Well-known member
One of my all time favourite poets, Ocatvio Paz poems are noted for been surrealistic, marxist, existential and has influences from Wallace Stevens to Carl Jung. Themes of his poems ranges from love to language to Mexican identity, and rarely does he write political poems, which made him sort of different to other well-know Latin American poets like Neruda.

If you haven't read Paz, I recommend his essays like Labyrinth of Solitude, On Poets and Others, Children of the Mire. If you want to read his poems, I recommend you start A Tree Within, or Sunstone. If you want to go all the way, I recommend Collected Poems 1957--1987, brilliantly translated by Eliot Weinberger, it covers his poems Sunstone through the 1987 collection A Tree Within.

Ranking the books I have read from him

Essays first:
Labyrinth of Solitude
Convergences
Children of the Mire
On Poets and Others

Volumes of Poems:

Sunstone
A Tree Within
Conjunctions and Disjunctions
Between Stone and Flower
Blanco
Eagle/Sun
East Slope
Salamander
 
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Ben Jackson

Well-known member
The poems of Octavio Paz has two themes: Love and Language. His poems are mostly influenced by Surrealism an places love as essence of human experience and initiator of life. His poems have images of woman, sea, stones to capture the essence of Mexican identity and landscape and are also influenced by most 20th Century philosophical ideologies from Marxism to Existentialism.

Colour (Blanco 1968)

8

His source's Mexico
His language set apart from
All the others
White on white

9

Pulse beat quickens
On the playing card he holds
A foliage unfolds for him
A language no one reads.

6
No further clarity
Than this
No histories or hieroglyphics
To guide us
Dunes and water all around
Conspiracies of light
Absent survivors

4
The Spanish Centuries
Remain anonymous
Against my forehead
Silt obscures a castle
Coal burns yellow
Patience ends a white confusion
Covers all
 
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