Nobel Prize in Literature 2020 Speculation

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redhead

Blahblahblah
I think it would be a very dark horse nomination, even if they were going for a philosopher. I don't see any of Zizek's ideas being coherent or relevant enough for the Nobel, never mind the dubious style (completely abstruse, decorated with badly-digested pop culture, and recycled book to book). Like I said, I think Habermas (who can be abstruse, yes), who has been a pillar of European philosophy for over 50 years, exploring and refining his concepts of the public sphere, communicative action, normativity, and European democracy, would be the more obvious (and rightful) choice.


I'm far from an expert as well, but this view may be a bit outdated. The scope of both has widened, and both have dialogued and even cross-pollinated to some extent. Here's a small piece I don't entirely agree with but is a good explainer; or to put it in an image, "as Bernard Williams [apparently] famously pointed out, cross-classifying the main division within contemporary Western philosophy in the mixed, geographical-cum-methodological terms analytic and Continental is rather like trying to sort cars into two (would-be) mutually exclusive groups, those “with an automatic transmission,” on the one hand, and those “made in Germany,” on the other." (Thomson (2019) "Rethinking the Analytic/Continental Divide" in The Cambridge History of Philosophy, 1945–2015)

Thanks for the clarification!! My “education” in philosophy was incredibly spotty and I used to hang out at a forum where phil. majors would shitpost, which has probably left me with more than a few outdated stereotypes about the field.
 

redhead

Blahblahblah
They're adding these people relatively low down the list though so I'm not sure you can read anything in to it

I’m assuming it’s just the betting site adding some names who should have been on the list, rather than people betting on those writers
 

Bartleby

Moderator
Cormac McCarthy, Fosse and Robinson too. (And Yu Hua? Was he on there before?).
Oh yeah they’ve added these after I checked, maybe some more will appear today. (I thought Yu Hua was there from the start, or very early on. I may be wrong tho)
 
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redhead

Blahblahblah
Literary Saloon thoughts are up from MAO


This quote made me laugh very loudly: "Online debate has been pretty limited, with the exception of the Nobel Prize in Literature 2020 Speculation-thread at the World Literature Forum, which certainly goes on at great length"

Personally I would have thought that Ngugi wa Thiong'o would fall into the category of a consensus candidate...

I wonder if they will actually go for a consensus pick this year (probably rules out Can Xue...). I’m rereading some poems by Anne Carson today, and of the names that have come up in this thread, she and Annie Ernaux who strike me most as consensus picks (not a mark against them, I just mean I expect they’d have broad appeal in the SA). Wonder if it’ll be one of them? (Although I’d also classify Ngugi as a consensus candidate...)
 
Now the tweets have dried up and I don't think we'll see more until Thursday, this is where I think they might lead (if they lead anywhere at all).

- of the tweets focussed on 2020 speculation, they are all women (apart from William Faulkner)
- of the tweets that were "montages" of either specific works or authors, each montage was 50/50 made up of male/female writers - this is vastly against the (dreadful) historic ratio of male to female winners and to me this pointedly suggests a direct consciousness of that fact (not that it would be difficult to be aware of). They have clearly made a conscious effort to achieve an exactly 50/50 split on both occasions
- the final tweet for Grazia Deledda specifically mentioned she was the first Italian woman to win the prize

So, barring any more tweets from closer to announcement day, I'd interpret this as: Ernaux, Xue, or Ulitskaya, who'd each be the first female laureate from their respective nations. (I'm taking inspiration here both from twitter and the checkouts from the library!)
 
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redhead

Blahblahblah
So, barring any more tweets from closer to announcement day, I'd interpret this as: Ernaux, Xue, or Ulitskaya, who'd each be the first female laureate from their respective nations.

I can’t shake the feeling that those were all scheduled by some intern, but that is an interesting point, especially because they could have whittled down the shortlist to two or three names by that time. So although no winner was picked out they could have known they would pick the first woman laureate for a country.

But don’t be surprised if we see a few more posts this week. I just double checked some old threads here and it looks like in 2015 they pointed to a woman winning a day or two before the announcement, and in 2016 they actually dropped enough hints that one poster was able to (jokingly) piece together that it meant Dylan won.
 

hayden

Well-known member
So although no winner was picked out they could have known they would pick the first woman laureate for a country.

Which rules out Carson, but not Ernaux, Xue, Conde, Huong or Ulitskaya.

A shared prize between two female laureates could be attractive for the press. Evening out the gender disparity, etc... Just tossing it out there.
 

hayden

Well-known member
Also, a whole bunch of names were just added to Ladbrokes.

Aaaaand, they've definitely been reading this thread :ROFLMAO:

Linton Kwesi Johnson, Houellebecq, Mukasonga, Gluck, Simic...
 

Uemarasan

Reader
I'd say perhaps, but only if the committee are actively looking for an alternative Spanish writer to Marias because they'd rather award someone slightly less well known and popular, and are happy that Cercas comes up to scratch. (I appreciate Cercas is still relatively well known, but not sure he's as well known across the world as Marias? I may be wrong).

Personally I've found the couple of books I've read by Cercas far less striking and a little more lightweight than Marias' work.

Just to go back to this post, but I have been reading about another writer from Spain who is arguably a bit lesser known than Marias: Jaume Cabre. Interestingly enough, he has been awarded the Kulturhuset Stadsteaterns Internationella litteraturpris, the same Swedish prize Olga Tokarczuk won before she got the Nobel.

I find his position in Spanish literature quite fascinating:

“Despite all that – and maybe, because writers can be perverse buggers, because of it – Cabré decided that he would only write in Catalan. He’s not pompous about making that choice, doesn’t resent those Catalans who opted to write in Spanish or accuse them of selling out in order to get the kind of publishing deals that anyone who stuck to writing in Catalan could only dream of.”


I’d love to know how many of his books are in the Academy’s library.
 

Bartleby

Moderator
Also, a whole bunch of names were just added to Ladbrokes.

Aaaaand, they've definitely been reading this thread :ROFLMAO:

Linton Kwesi Johnson, Houellebecq, Mukasonga, Gluck, Simic...
We may be helping someone who probably never opened a book gain a lot of money :p
And..... Richard Osman lol
at least King, although having no chance of winning at all, has a large body of work to his name hehe


I’d love to know how many of his books are in the Academy’s library.
5, with one checked out
 

Johnny

Well-known member
Also, a whole bunch of names were just added to Ladbrokes.

Aaaaand, they've definitely been reading this thread :ROFLMAO:

Linton Kwesi Johnson, Houellebecq, Mukasonga, Gluck, Simic...
Looks like it! It’s been a great discussion, really looking forward to the build up to next Thursday. At this stage I’m beginning to think Ulitskaya will be the winner. I definitely think it will be a non European, and references to scientist and first female winner from a country all point to her. On the other hand it would be surprising if that many hints were leaked. The fact that she was 2nd favourite in the list earlier this week is also odd, don’t think many of us would have put her there.

Another part of me thinks they will definitely want to reward some of the older giants of literature in the year that’s in it and that brings in Thiong’o, McCarthy and Kundera amongst others. Murnane is not even on the Ladbrokes list, although neither is Krasznahorkai!
 

Sisyphus

Reader
I haven't posted much in this thread, but let me add my two cents, on Ismail Kadare as I know a thing or two about him. it feels a little awkward every time I talk about him as my username is kadare and I risk being regarded as biased, but anyways I am more familiar with this writer so this topic is where I can contribute more.


- First, I.Kadare is a very talented and versatile writer.
-Second, he is much more that just some writer from a small country. What he achieved while living in a Stalinist dictatorship is impressive, to say the least, and it hasn't been replicated anywhere else in the Eastern Bloc.
-Third, Kadare had all the odds against him. He was born in a small backward country, with barely 1 million people, who just 30 years before had emerged from the ruins of the feudal Ottoman Empire where Albanian culture had been suppressed for five centuries, and which after WWII had seen the establishment of a 40 year long Stalinist dictatorship where literature was supposed to aid the Communist Party educate the masses and form the New Man, while Western influences were deemed "heretical". The writer under communism was supposed to write about themes such as the struggle of the communist partisans against the Nazi occupation; or the building of a sunny socialist paradise by the happy working class and the definitely-not-hungry peasants. A black and white portrayal was expected: the communists- fully good, their opponents- fully bad. There were periods of "thaw" and "frost" and what period it was determined the repercussions one would face for going against the Party line in literature. There were periods when somewhat liberal tendencies in arts were somehow tolerated temporarily, then came periods where one could be executed for a harmless poem about autumn.
- Kadare believed he was talented, so he had no plans to write propaganda-literature for the peasants and the proletariat, instead he started deviating from the party line early on, but luckily for him it was a period of liberalism (the 60s after the country had cut off its relations to the Soviet Union since it wanted to keep Stalinism, which it did until 1990) so his works were only banned and criticized. His most famous novel The General of the Dead Army is from this early period and it paid off as this launched his international career.

- He had to act outwardly as a conformist, but he still was something like weird guy for communist standards. Not the smiling New Socialist Man, rather this insufferable grumpy, reserved and even a little arrogant talented guy.
-Kadare, having an above average intelligence, used various tricks to outwit his opponents, be that censors, critics or ordinary communist officials, but unfortunately not the dictator who was very cunning as well. For example, Kadare fooled the editor-in-chief of a literary journal into publishing his modernist novel The Monster, by persuading him it was an avant-garde work the communist world had been waiting for but only their country could produce. Not surprisingly it was instantly banned after it appeared. In fact only a single novel was well-received, all the others were frowned upon or worse, some were banned, some were not.
- But then Le General de l'Arme Morte, his non-conformist novel made him famous in the West and that made him to a certain degree untouchable for the regime. From that point on, Kadare just started writing more and more audacious works, regardless of the negative repercussions, which kept getting only stronger and stronger. They still weren't openly dissident as no such thing was tolerated. In fact, he played a little dumb and apologized each time, but he was "insufferable". In 1973 it was a 3 month long hate campaign a la Pasternak in the media, as a response to one of his provocative novels, in 1975 he was banished and banned from publishing novels, for a poem in which he portrayed high communist officials will their arms soaked in blood up to their elbows. That is when he barely escaped the arrest. It was made clear to him that this was the last time he would escape with such a mild punishment. A writer famous in the West was just too precious of a card to be thrown away.
-And this is when Kadare went full bersek mode. In communist Albania it was common for folks to send anonymous letters to the authorities with denunciations about a person or a perceived danger, and it was one such letter criticizing the dress of a TV host of a singing contest, which was rumored to have launched a huge purge against liberal artists in 1973. In 1981 Kadare tricked the censors into publishing a novel about people sending their dreams to the authorities in a fictionalized Ottoman Empire and the authorities analyzing them to find potential dangers for the state. Not surprisingly, in the novel it is a harmless dream about a musical instrument and a bridge which unleashes a huge purge.

-Of course the communists weren't dumb, The Palace of Dreams was banned quickly, albeit too late. This unleashed a reaction in Paris, where Kadare was famous; rumor has it that even François Mitterrand was involved but I don't know how much that is true. It is for sure that French intellectuals didn't stay quiet. Kadare didn't get arrested because the authorities didn't want another Solzhenitsyn, they didn't dare to etc, or so it was thought until this year, but this summer the person who served as the Chief Investigator of Albania in 1982, revealed that the order for Kadare's arrest had been given, everything had been prepared for the arrest, the trial and execution of Kadare as part of a huge purge. After The Palace of Dreams/Le Palais des Reves, the dictator had had enough, his fragile ego couldn't let it slide that he had been fooled for so long by the Hamlet-like enemy right under his nose. Long story shor, the Investigator discouraged him from arresting Kadare at that time for a number of reasons and the dictator died soon so no new opportunity presented itself. Curiously enough, right when the dictator fell into a coma before succumbing to his disease, high officials gathered in order to ban and condemn Kadare's newest novel Clair de Lune.
-Ironically, only after communism fell, did the communists manage to retaliate against Kadare. As of today, the archives and the files of the secret police have yet to be opened for the public. It is not sure who was who under communism. People who collaborated with the secret police would claim to have been persecuted, some by Kadare. In the 90s and 2000s they managed to persuade a great deal of the population that Kadare had been a communist and to this day there are a lot of people who hate him for no reason. The communists have done a great deal to ruin his reputation abroad, by sending letters with denunciations or by ruining his reputation at home which would still influence the one or other journalist or historian abroad. Someone from Nobel Academy once informed Kadare about a denunciation which they found very grotesque: somebody had denounced him that he doesn't write in Albanian. Throughout the 90s it is rumored that a ton of letters with denunciations against Kadare have gone from Albania to the Nobel Academy. It could very well be that he was in the shorlist during the 90s but was skipped and lost his momentum because the SA weren't sure about his role during communism. Only during the 2010s as documents from the archives emerged, and some high ranking communist officials spoke to clear their conscience, did Kadare's name get completely cleared for the extreme sceptics. IBut it is not clear if the SA would want to award a "Solzhenitsyn" in 2020, 30 years after the fall of communism.
 
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Bartleby

Moderator
Just to go back to this post, but I have been reading about another writer from Spain who is arguably a bit lesser known than Marias: Jaume Cabre. Interestingly enough, he has been awarded the Kulturhuset Stadsteaterns Internationella litteraturpris, the same Swedish prize Olga Tokarczuk won before she got the Nobel.

I find his position in Spanish literature quite fascinating:

“Despite all that – and maybe, because writers can be perverse buggers, because of it – Cabré decided that he would only write in Catalan. He’s not pompous about making that choice, doesn’t resent those Catalans who opted to write in Spanish or accuse them of selling out in order to get the kind of publishing deals that anyone who stuck to writing in Catalan could only dream of.”


I’d love to know how many of his books are in the Academy’s library.
Hum nice to know about this prize, it seems to be a Swedish international Booker. This year’s shortlist has many recognisable names in it, such as Anna Burns with Milkman; Ocean Vuong with his debut novel; Sebastian Barry with Days without end; Agustín Fernández Mallo with Nocilla Dream; and two other authors I’d never heard of before, from Caracas and Iceland (Karina Sainz Borgo and Einar Kárason respectively).

The Tokarczuk book that won, when the prize was established, in 2016, was her The Books of Jacob; the translation of Lincoln in the Bardo also won.

the winners are announced sometime in October.
 

Bartleby

Moderator
I haven't posted much in this thread, but let me add my two cents, on why I think Ismail Kadare would deserve the Nobel this year:


- First, I.Kadare is a very talented and versatile writer.
-Second, he is much more that just some writer from a small country. What he achieved while living in a Stalinist dictatorship is impressive, to say the least, and it hasn't been replicated anywhere else in the Eastern Bloc.
-Third, Kadare had all the odds against him. He was born in a small backward country, with barely 1 million people, who just 30 years before had emerged from the ruins of the feudal Ottoman Empire where Albanian culture had been suppressed for five centuries, and which after WWII had seen the establishment of a 40 year long Stalinist dictatorship where literature was supposed to aid the Communist Party educate the masses and form the New Man, while Western influences were deemed "heretical". The writer under communism was supposed to write about themes such as the struggle of the communist partisans against the Nazi occupation; or the building of a sunny socialist paradise by the happy working class and the definitely-not-hungry peasants. A black and white portrayal was expected: the communists- fully good, their opponents- fully bad. There were periods of "thaw" and "frost" and what period it was determined the repercussions one would face for going against the Party line in literature. There were periods when somewhat liberal tendencies in arts were somehow tolerated temporarily, then came periods where one could be executed for a harmless poem about autumn.
- Kadare believed he was talented, so he had no plans to write propaganda-literature for the peasants and the proletariat, instead he started deviating from the party line early on, but luckily for him it was a period of liberalism (the 60s after the country had cut off its relations to the Soviet Union since it wanted to keep Stalinism, which it did until 1990) so his works were only banned and criticized. His most famous novel The General of the Dead Army is from this early period and it paid off as this launched his international career.

- He had to act outwardly as a conformist, but he still was something like weird guy for communist standards. Not the smiling New Socialist Man, rather this insufferable grumpy, reserved and even a little arrogant talented guy.
-Kadare, having an above average intelligence, used various tricks to outwit his opponents, be that censors, critics or ordinary communist officials, but unfortunately not the dictator who was very cunning as well. For example, Kadare fooled the editor-in-chief of a literary journal into publishing his modernist novel The Monster, by persuading him it was an avant-garde work the communist world had been waiting for but only their country could produce. Not surprisingly it was instantly banned after it appeared. In fact only a single novel was well-received, all the others were frowned upon or worse, some were banned, some were not.
- But then Le General de l'Arme Morte, his non-conformist novel made him famous in the West and that made him to a certain degree untouchable for the regime. From that point on, Kadare just started writing more and more audacious works, regardless of the negative repercussions, which kept getting only stronger and stronger. They still weren't openly dissident as no such thing was tolerated. In fact, he played a little dumb and apologized each time, but he was "insufferable". In 1973 it was a 3 month long hate campaign a la Pasternak in the media, as a response to one of his provocative novels, in 1975 he was banished and banned from publishing novels, for a poem in which he portrayed high communist officials will their arms soaked in blood up to their elbows. That is when he barely escaped the arrest. It was made clear to him that this was the last time he would escape with such a mild punishment. A writer famous in the West was just too precious of a card to be thrown away.
-And this is when Kadare went full bersek mode. In communist Albania it was common for folks to send anonymous letters to the authorities with denunciations about a person or a perceived danger, and it was one such letter criticizing the dress of a TV host of a singing contest, which was rumored to have launched a huge purge against liberal artists in 1973. In 1981 Kadare tricked the censors into publishing a novel about people sending their dreams to the authorities in a fictionalized Ottoman Empire and the authorities analyzing them to find potential dangers for the state. Not surprisingly, in the novel it is a harmless dream about a musical instrument and a bridge which unleashes a huge purge.

-Of course they weren't dumb, it was banned quickly, albeit too late. This unleashed a reaction in Paris, where Kadare was famous; rumor has it that even François Mitterrand was involved but I don't know how much that is true. It is for sure that French intellectuals didn't stay quiet. Kadare didn't get arrested because the authorities didn't want another Solzhenitsyn, they didn't dare to etc, or so it was thought until this year, but this summer the person who served as the Chief Investigator of Albania in 1982, revealed that the order for Kadare's arrest had been given, everything had been prepared for the arrest, the trial and execution of Kadare as part of a huge purge. After The Palace of Dreams/Le Palais des Reves, the dictator had had enough, his fragile ego couldn't let it slide that he had been fooled for so long by the Hamlet-like enemy right under his nose. Long story shor, the Investigator discouraged him from arresting it at this time for a number of reasons and the dictator died soon so no new opportunity presented itself. Curiously enough, right when the dictator fell in coma before succumbing to his disease, high officials gathered in order to ban and condemn Kadare's newest novel Clair de Lune.
-Ironically, only after communism fell, did the communists manage to retaliate against Kadare. As of today, the archives and the files of the secret police have yet to be opened for the public. It is not sure who was who under communism. People who collaborated with the secret police would claim to have been persecuted, some by Kadare. In the 90s and 2000s they managed to persuade a great deal of the population that Kadare had been a communist and to this day there are a lot of people who hate him for no reason. The communists have done a great deal to ruin his reputation abroad, by sending letters with denunciations or by ruining his reputation at home which would still influence the one or other journalist or historian abroad. Someone from Nobel Academy once informed Kadare about a denunciation which they found very grotesque: somebody had denounced him that he doesn't write in Albanian. Throughout the 90s it is rumored that a ton of letters with denunciations against Kadare have gone from Albania to the Nobel Academy. It could very well be that he was in the shorlist during the 90s but was skipped and lost his momentum because the SA weren't sure about his role during communism. Only during the 2010s as documents from the archives emerged, and some high ranking communist officials spoke to clear their conscience, did Kadare's name get completely cleared for the extreme sceptics. IBut it is not clear if the SA would want to award a "Solzhenitsyn" in 2020, 30 years after the fall of communism.
A very interesting portrait of the writer, thanks :)
I wonder if you could talk a bit more about his works themselves...
 

Sisyphus

Reader
A very interesting portrait of the writer, thanks :)
I wonder if you could talk a bit more about his works themselves...
My username is kadare, did I look biased to you? :)
They are different from Houellebecq's ...

---

P.S. I haven't participated in this forum for over a year as I was busy and didn't read much, and on top of that I changed my password and couldn't remember what it was. It took me an eternity until I figured out, and the Forgot Password option wasn't much of a help. But this is off topic. :)
Looking forward to being here again.
 
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Bartleby

Moderator
My username is kadare, did I look biased to you? :)
They are different from Houellebecq's ...
I’m not sure I’m following.
well of course I figured from the first time I saw a post from you that you loved the writer :)

I was just interested in knowing about the reasons why his work alone, its style and themes and how they work together, should win the Nobel; and it would be a nice way of finally making me curious to opening a book of his, is all...
 
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