Chinese Literature

Stewart

Administrator
Staff member
An interview with Howard Goldblatt on translating from Chinese to English has made me think we need a thread on Chinese Literature.

It's not something I've read too much of: namely Bi Feiyu's The Moon Opera and Eileen Chang's Lust, Caution. And Ma Jian's Stick Out Your Tongue, the text which was, while not critical of Tibet, certainly less idealistic about it.

Of course China has a Nobel Prize winner in Gao Xingjian, too, even if he lives in France these days. (And I don't think too much of his work has been translated. Soul Mountain springs to mind, though.)

So, this thread is for all snippets and the like on the subject of Chinese literature.
 
Chinese literature recommendations

Hi,

I'm fairly unfamiliar with Chinese literature. I've read Monkey, which is more of an early epic than a novel, I own Outlaws of the Water Margins but haven't read it yet. I recently bought Volume one of The Story of the Stone.

But really, this isn't a literature I know well. What would people recommend? Classic and contemporary. Crime recommendations also happily accepted.
 

kpjayan

Reader
I can suggest "Red Shorgum" of Mo Yan , "Farewell my Concubine" by Lilian Lee. The screen adaptation of Farewell my concubine has also won the Golden Palm at the 1995 Cannes Film Festival.

Gao Xingjian's 'Soul Mountain' and "One man's Bible' are also very good, but personally I liked 'Soul Mountain' over the other.
 

Jayaprakash

Reader
The only modern Chinese novel I've read is Playing For Thrills by Wang Shuo. It's got elements of hardboiled noir and surrealism, as an urban drifter attempts to unravel a mystery from his past that has returned to haunt him. There's a strong element of social critique here as well, focussing on the disenfranchisement and lack of opportunities faced by the youth in China after the cultural revolution. It's a strange read with shifting perspectives and storylines and I found it pretty compelling.
 

Jan Mbali

Reader
Years ago I owned a paperpack collection of Chinese Poetry - I think it was "The Penguin... Chinese Poetry". I think the author was Frost. It was a superb collection, from ancient to fairly modern. The classical poetry glows. For years I have hunted for a replacement in vain. Can anyone come up with a likely suspect in terms of the title and author?

A non-fiction classic I only discovered recently is the Art of War, purportedly by Sun Tze. There are several editions out with a terrific introduction by Thomas Cleary. In spite of its subject matter, I was surprised to find a strong humanist thread running through it and followed that thread to Taoism which is interesting indeed. A lot of wisdom scattered like gems among the mystical veils. Cleary puts it all into perspective.
 

nnyhav

Reader
New novel by Dai Sijie, on the set of The Last Emperor:
http://www.worldliteratureforum.com...9-media-reviews-translations-4.html#post18397

New thread on an old classic:
http://www.worldliteratureforum.com/forum/asian-oceanic-literature/9486-cao-xueqin-story-stone.html

I followed that with Kenneth Rexroth's Love and the Turning Year: One Hundred More Poems from the Chinese, personal interpretations, split evenly between the Six Dynasties and T'ang and Sung, with brief biographical notes on the 60 poets represented. But beyond the usual problems of translation, typography can never adequately reflect calligraphy.
 

liehtzu

Reader
Some of my Chinese literature recommendations:

Anything by Mo Yan, best known for Red Sorghum, which was filmed as Zhang Yimou's first (and I still say best) film, is worth reading. All the jackets of Mo?s books quote Oe Kenzaburo: ?If I could choose anyone for the Nobel, I would choose Mo Yan.? I haven?t read any of his recent work, but from the sound of it the books are getting even longer and more ambitious. A good started for Mo Yan might be the story collection Shifu, You?ll do Anything for a Laugh.

Anything by Nobel laureate Gao Xingjian, especially his best-known novel Soul Mountain, which I?ve read twice ? the second time while travelling, somewhat Gao Xingjian-like, through the villages and landscapes of rural China. Aside from Soul Mountain there?s another fine novel in English, One Man?s Bible, and a superb collection of stories called Buying a Fishing Rod for My Grandfather that are reminiscent of Kawabata?s in that they?re brief, not really strong on story, yet have the ability to leave a lingering aftertaste. Gao is also a painter.

Bei Dao was considered the prime candidate for the Nobel before Gao won. Primarily a poet (I?ve never warmed to his poetry to be honest), he also has a collection of great short stories called Waves.


Jiang Rong's Wolf Totem is getting very strong reviews recently and sounds great, but I haven't read it.

Su Tong's Rice is vivid and effective, but so grim, violent, and nasty that it's hard for me to recommend it. Perhaps better to start with the more placid Raise the Red Lantern with this author. Also a Zhang Yimou film.

There is a long out-of-print anthology of prewar Shanghai writers called Straw Sandals that's worth digging up, even if the grim fates of many of the writers is more memorable than several of the stories themselves (some of them are pretty crude Marxist propaganda). An interesting period, certainly. I was the only one I know who really thought well of Ang Lee's film Lust, Caution (and I don't even like Ang Lee) and I hear that Eileen Chang, the author of the story the film's based on, is very good.

The only writers in "Straw Sandals" who had anything else published in English (that I know of) are Lu Hsun, who was considered the father of the modern Chinese novel, and the female writer Ding Ling, who had an extraordinary hard life that in some ways was similar to that of the Russian poet Anna Akhmatova ? husband, also a writer, executed by the state; denounced by the Communist government; unable to publish during most of her lifetime.

I like a lot of classic Chinese writers, especially those great old T?ang Dynasty poets! The poets Po Chu-i, Tu Fu, Wang Wei, and especially Li Po, the ?drunken immortal? who, in the classic legend, drowned while drunk and boating on a lake and trying to grasp the reflection of the full moon upon the water. David Hinton does superb translations of all of these.


And of course, Taoist texts. In high school I began to read the classics of Taoism and I never ceased loving them. I have yet to find anything that feels as close to me philosophically. The oldest and best known by far is the Tao Te Ching, but I?ve always been fonder of the two that followed ? frankly, less cryptic and more fun to read ? the Chuang Tzu and, of course, the Lieh Tzu. The stories and parables are terrific, as are the deliberately nonsensical, and it?s nice to see sour old Confucius take a regular kick in the pants.
 

nnyhav

Reader
thx liehtzu
I like a lot of classic Chinese writers, especially those great old T?ang Dynasty poets! The poets Po Chu-i, Tu Fu, Wang Wei, and especially Li Po, the ?drunken immortal? who, in the classic legend, drowned while drunk and boating on a lake and trying to grasp the reflection of the full moon upon the water. David Hinton does superb translations of all of these.
Rexroth seems partial to Arthur Waley's translations, but that was long ago ... I see Hinton's got a site up, with samples: Chinese Poetry
 

titania7

Reader
Nnyhav,
Thanks so much for posting a link to this fascinating article. It sounds like Yu Hau has had more than his share of detractors. The article, "Pulling Yu Hau's teeth," which he dismissed as a piece of "sensationalism" sounds as if it was particularly calumnious. The main criticism of the work seems to be that Yu depicts the "dark side" of China. Yu, who points out that older writers have had more positive things to say about Brothers, says (at one point in the article):

"Younger writers don't like to see books that reveal the dark side of China; they live very comfortable lives; they don't believe in the dark side of China; they are not even aware of the hundreds of millions of people still living in extreme poverty."

Sometimes it is easier to dream of a more utopian existence than to face the ugly and harsh realities around us. It will be interesting to see what people at this forum make of Brothers. Personally, I'm delighted that it's going to be available in English translation later this year as I definitely plan to take a look at it.

Once again, thank you, Nnyhav. You seem to have a knack for finding interesting articles!

~Titania
 
Last edited:

Eric

Former Member
There's one fundamental problem with Chinese literature: China is not the most democratic state on Earth (although you are allowed to ritually throw shoes at its leader, as with Dubya). This means, in publishing terms, that unless the Western reader has a clear idea what is approved and what is dissident, we will continue to be swamped by a load of anodyne tomes (some very fat) about anything but what is going on in China right now.

If they are allowing criitical descriptions of the Maoist revolution to be published now, this is like publishing things in Russia about Stalin's murderous r?gime in order to distract people from the fact that Russia is getting more repressive all the time, anno 2009.

I don't believe that there has been much literary thought among Western reviewers and critics put into why we are being flooded with Chinese novels. It's just another new trend. Next year it'll be all those thousands of Arabic novels waiting to be translated. Chinese literature abroad is the extended arm of the drive every undemocratic nation has to promote a good image of its country abroad, so that it can sell things to foreigners that drool over Chinese villages (that are being swept away by "development"), while the leaders of the country run it as a dictatorship. It's part of trade & propaganda.

I repeat: it is time we started identifying, as we did with Communist Russia (aka the USSR) twenty-thirty years ago, the real Chinese authors. Until we get some more detailed picture of who is a Party apparatchik and who is a genuine dissident, I shall not be bothering with Chinese literature. Many visible Chinese authors either live abroad or write in languages other than Chinese. I would like to know more about the Chinese equivalents of Grossman, Rybakov, Solzhenitsyn, Zamyatin, and so on.

The Three Percent blog article referred to by Nnyhav does not yet fill me with enthusiasm. I think that Western critics are still so ignorant about Chinese literature as a whole literature, that they scrape together a load of authors' names uncritically.
 

liehtzu

Reader
There's one fundamental problem with Chinese literature: China is not the most democratic state on Earth (although you are allowed to ritually throw shoes at its leader, as with Dubya). This means, in publishing terms, that unless the Western reader has a clear idea what is approved and what is dissident, we will continue to be swamped by a load of anodyne tomes (some very fat) about anything but what is going on in China right now.

If they are allowing criitical descriptions of the Maoist revolution to be published now, this is like publishing things in Russia about Stalin's murderous r?gime in order to distract people from the fact that Russia is getting more repressive all the time, anno 2009.

I don't believe that there has been much literary thought among Western reviewers and critics put into why we are being flooded with Chinese novels. It's just another new trend. Next year it'll be all those thousands of Arabic novels waiting to be translated. Chinese literature abroad is the extended arm of the drive every undemocratic nation has to promote a good image of its country abroad, so that it can sell things to foreigners that drool over Chinese villages (that are being swept away by "development"), while the leaders of the country run it as a dictatorship. It's part of trade & propaganda.

I repeat: it is time we started identifying, as we did with Communist Russia (aka the USSR) twenty-thirty years ago, the real Chinese authors. Until we get some more detailed picture of who is a Party apparatchik and who is a genuine dissident, I shall not be bothering with Chinese literature. Many visible Chinese authors either live abroad or write in languages other than Chinese. I would like to know more about the Chinese equivalents of Grossman, Rybakov, Solzhenitsyn, Zamyatin, and so on.

The Three Percent blog article referred to by Nnyhav does not yet fill me with enthusiasm. I think that Western critics are still so ignorant about Chinese literature as a whole literature, that they scrape together a load of authors' names uncritically.

The history of Western critics scraping together a load of authors' names uncritically is long and hasn't significantly improved over time. There's still the lazy assumption for many that the West (especially Europe) is the cultural and artistic center of the universe and that most non-Western art and literature is inevitably "oriental" and quaint.

From the standpoint of a long-time film lover I still cringe when I see sloppy critical shorthand for any Asian movie of a stately pace that it is "Ozu-like" (a reference to the Japanese filmmaker Ozu Yasujiro, who worked from the '30s to the '60s), displaying phenomenal ignorance of the filmmakers' previous works, the filmmaking traditions of the various countries and regions, and finally even of Ozu, the filmmaker they reference for lack of another name. The Taiwanese director Hou Hsiao-hsien left Western critics incredulous when he said that he had never seen an Ozu film into well past the point when he started directing his own - the audacity of the fellow! As for writers, although Indian authors (ones who write in English) are slowly gaining respect, outside of India most Western critics can reference two writers from the rest of the continent, both Japanese - Murakami and Mishima. I got a kick out of Murakami's bemusement when asked about the stylistic similarities between the two by an American interviewer who obviously knew no other Japanese writer.

That said there's certainly no reason to dismiss Chinese writers simply because China is not the most democratic state on Earth. It is still frowned upon to criticize the Maoist revolution in a country where pictures of Mao - from living rooms to public buses - are as ubiquitous as pictures of the king in Thailand or of Ho Chi Minh in Vietnam. The official line remains that Mao was a pretty decent guy all said and done who made a few minor mistakes. Films and books criticizing the Maoist era are still routinely banned and often must be circulated underground or published in Taiwan. Even books that seem rather innocuous, like Gao Xingjian's Soul Mountain - which I was reading on a train from Chengdu to Giuyang while sitting across from a doctor, an apparently well-read gent, who expressed astonishment that a Chinese writer had won the Nobel Prize for Literature (it simply had never made the news there) - get banned for "negative portrayals." Unlike modern Russia, China is still run by "the party." A criticism of the Cultural Revolution is a criticism of the party, and I think all good novelists writing "historical" novels living under repressive regimes find ways to make references to modern times.

Living under the thumb of such regimes forces the genuine artists to find ways around censorship, and intelligent readers or filmgoers in those countries learn how to read between the lines. To use another cinematic example, Iranian cinema was the big explosion on the international scene in the '90s. On the surface so many of those films were sweet, gentle, children's films - but the filmmakers found subtle ways to allude to their society's ills at large, specifically the treatment of women and dissidents. Certainly the government couldn't go about banning kids' films (though more overt criticism, like Jafar Panahi's The Circle and some of Mohsen Makhmalbaf's films did get banned), so that became a way for many Iranian filmmakers to be critical of the regime and sneak past the censors.

Much of contemporary Chinese writing published in English does appear to be more than a little empty-headed (dull Shanghai bimbos writing "exposes"), and there may be an element of "Chinese literature abroad is the extended arm of the drive every undemocratic nation has to promote a good image of its country abroad, so that it can sell things to foreigners," but in China you hear grumblings about how only films and books that present a negative slant on the country (which would be their idea of what is exported for Western edification) get shown and translated. Chinese films and novels that showed up in the West were routinely banned in the '90s and more than a few got punished by the State (Tian Zhuangzhuang wasn't allowed to make movies for a full ten years after The Blue Kite). What do you do? You sell out - as filmmaker Zhang Yimou most disgustingly has and, as has the New York Times article indicates, Yu Hua may also have done - you remain "banned," you emigrate, or you find ways to work around the system (Jia Zhangke admitted gleefully that though his early films were all banned they got huge circulation on bootleg DVD).

There are a number of worthwhile writers in China now, but you have to do a little digging in order to separate the pretenders from the genuine articles. I think that, rather than not bothering with Chinese writers, is the way to go.
 

nnyhav

Reader
13Feb TLS Commentary (alas not online) features David Hawkes (Oxfordian, translator of Cao Xueqin) on the vagaries of cultural transmission, "Mix them grain by grain", the obfuscation of the origins (early 14th or late 16thc, classical or demotic?) of the following, a poem extracted by William Empson from Li Ji's midcentury longer narrative poem:

Chinese Ballad

Now he has seen the girl Hsiang-Hsiang,
Now back to the guerrilla band;
And she goes with him down the vale
And pauses at the strand.

The mud is yellow, deep, and thick,
And their feet stick, where the stream turns.
"Make me two models out of this,
That clutches as it yearns.

"Make one of me and one of you,
And both shall be alive.
Were there no magic in the dolls
The children could not thrive.

"When you have made them smash them back:
They yet shall live again.
Again make dolls of you and me
But mix them grain by grain.

"So your flesh shall be part of mine
And part of mine be yours.
Brother and sister we shall be
Whose unity endures.

"Always the sister doll will cry,
Made in these careful ways,
Cry on and on, Come back to me,
Come back, in a few days."
 
I may be a fool,but this is solid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yu_Hua_(author)

How come i'm the one to pull him out of the dark.(unless the search thing didn't work)

I read some excellent things on a French forum about him and as i mentioned elsewhere he got the Prix du courrier International.

I shall read Brothers an cast some some light on your backwardness.Soon.
 
Top