Dutch Literature

Eric

Former Member
What a larfer you are, as they say in Cockney. Sadly, although I am of course exaggerating to enhance the stylistic effect of my subtle and low-key humour, their is a sackful of truth in what I say. Talking of subtlety, I imagine you have intuited a number of things about they way Dutch people often pronounce English. To be fair, the Dutch, like the Swedes, often have a pretty good conversational knowledge of the English language.

But part of the reason that some Dutch writers get promoted is the lasting guilt about collaboration with the enemy during the German Nazi occupation during WWII. So efforts to promote the youngish Jewish gay writer Arnon Grunberg, now living in New York, as I believe, achieves three goals: a) showing that the Dutch love Jews; b) showing that the Dutch love gays; c) showing that the Dutch love America. Whether this love-in is skin-deep or profound is hard to tell.

A chap I met in the pub yesterday, a Peruvian exile, summed up the Dutch using a short phrase I have now forgotten but was something like "friendly arrogance" or similar. The tragedy about Dutch literature, as I have grumbled about on many occasions, is that its promotion reflects a kind of mercantile mentality, i.e. it must be sold as a product. And most foreign readers don't want to have books pushed down their throats by national propagandists who "know" they are right. One of Thomas Mann's figures of fun was just such a bumptious knowall, Mijnheer Peeperkorn in "Magic Mountain". But deep down, the Dutch are highly insecure about the quality of their literature and agonise about the tedium of Protestant church domination, which then swings to the other extreme with people writing mildly, or not so mildly, pornographic novels.

So personally, I mostly prefer Flemish literature, i.e. Belgian literature written in Dutch. The French language as neighbour has had a mellowing effect. The Flemings are more sluggish and sleepy than the Dutch - so the mentalities never fully gel with one another. There is always an element of love-hate between Flemings and the Dutch. This is all reflected in their literature. Sadly, the real geniuses of Dutch literature rarely get an airing in the English-speaking countries.
 

Eric

Former Member
There must be someone else, apart from Bernadette, who is going to defend Dutch literature from my rabid attacks. There's a huge organisation with over a dozen employees in Amsterdam that promotes Dutch literature, so maybe they can take some time to tell us what to read.
 

Eric

Former Member
John, New Amsterdam, actually. Danish, Dutch, all much of a muchness. Although I presume your comment was tongue-in-cheek.
 

Liam

Administrator
And now it is called New York, after York in England (?)

I suppose if Americans ever colonize Mars and build a city there they're going to call it New New York, :). I mean, why stop the trend?
 

Eric

Former Member
What about a bit more about Dutch literature? Has anyone read any lately? (I haven't!) Cees Nooteboom is mentioned on the Nobel speculation thread, but he's about the only Dutchman.

Though there could be the odd Fleming waiting to be enNobeled. Do you lump together Dutch and Flemish literature, because it's written in the same language? I feel that that would be like lumping together German and Austrian literature - same language, different country.

But I genuinely can't think of another Dutch writer who could win the Nobel. Maarten 't Hart is pretty good. But Nobel standard? Dutch literature has still hardly made any breakthough in the USA-UK consciousness. What would it take for that to happen, I wonder? Most of then Dutch writers that get translated in the UK are one-offs, or old classics that are being revived, like Couperus and, now that she's died, Haasse.

Simple question: why don't we hear more about Dutch literature?
 
M

maidenhair

Guest
Has anyone read any lately? (I haven't!)

Yeah, I can understand, all that thinking or 'half-thinking' about reading books take so much time already, right? It is really hard to find some time in between all that thinking to actually 'read' a book these days...
 

Eric

Former Member
I have read a few Dutch novels lately: two "Misery Guts and Killing Yourself" series novels by Jeroen Brouwers, the famous Maarten 't Hart novel "Protestant Musings on Bicyles", the wonderful "Eighteen Elegantly Turgid Travelogues" by Nobel prizewinner Sees Klootevroom, the galley proofs of the beautiful novel "Eating Turkish Delight in a Sex Shop in the Hague" by immigrant author Ikben Helemaalgek, the underwater novel by O. O. Verdrinken called "Damn, Burst" which is about condoms and dykes. The list is nearly endless.

So, Maidenhead, you can hardly accuse me of sitting still and ignoring what they write in the polders.
 

Liam

Administrator
Eric, luv, I am seriously beginning to think that you're losing it. I enjoy taking the piss and like a good joke as much as the next person, but you've turned this innocent pasttime into an all-time hobby, :rolleyes:.
 

Eric

Former Member
You keep serious, I can manage to lose it on my own, thanks.

You think that the Dutch are all a lot of jolly bigmouths that eat cheese, smoke pot, and put their fingers in dykes. But if you knew the things some of these Dutch chappies write about, like the ever-morbid Jeroen Brouwers, who has for decades been hinting that he's going to kill himself, then ran away to Flanders and maybe didn't like the Flemings as much as he though he would, and wrote a fat book about a whole number of writers who committed suicide when young, you wouldn't wonder at all why the Dutch never win the Nobel.

All of my little jokes in my previous posting refer to certain attributes that some of these Dutch authors have, even down to the silliness of Cees Nooteboom, who insists that his abbreviated name Cornelis must be pronounced "sayce", when nearly everyone else with that abbreviation says "kayce".

So on Friday nights, if I'm not out, I shall continue to go out of my ball, as the Dutch say.
 

Eric

Former Member
But my central point is a serious one: Dutch literature hardly seems to count as a visible national literature in the English-speaking countries. There are a few "odd authors" that are translated on an ad hoc basis, but there seems to be no clear picture at all of Dutch & Flemish literature as a concept, except at a university or two where students are examining Dutch books, mostly in the original Dutch. Apart from the North Sea in between, Britain is right next door to the Netherlands & Flanders, these are indeed the first coasts you come to apart from those of France and Germany. Dutch is spoken from the French-Belgian border right up to the Dutch-German border.

I would imagine that if you walked up to people in the street in England and asked those who have read a few novels to name five Dutch authors, they would not even be able to name one. How can it be that the "literature next door" is so utterly neglected? The Dutch have a rather large state organisation to promote Dutch literature abroad, and they are always present at book fairs, not least the London one. But the results seem to be sporadic when it comes to English.

Nor do the Dutch seem to care about modern classics except a very few names. Most promotion of Dutch literature appears to have the aim in mind of promoting new and living authors, certainly very few dead ones. In English there are a few novels by Hermans, Mulisch, Claus, Nooteboom, Couperus and a few others. But it is rare that a modern classic Dutch author has four or five of his or her novels available in English, and that they have become well-known in the UK. And that the authors are invited to British book fairs, in the case of contemporary ones.
 

Bubba

Reader
I'd like to read some Dutch literature, as I've found, from my study of German, that I can halfway read Dutch. In preparation, I bought myself a big Dutch-English dictionary. The problem is finding something to read. Here in France, I can find bilingual collections of short stories meant for language learners: French-Italian, French-German, French-Spanish, French-Portuguese, and French-Russian, but no French-Dutch (or Flemish). And even less am I able to find English-Dutch collections. Are there any such collections in the Netherlands or Flanders? No? Do the Walloons and the Flemings really hate each other that much? To the point they'd refuse to learn the other's language? If there are no bilingual collections, what is a good anthology of Dutch short stories in which one might discover a writer one would like to read more of? What are the good online stores for Dutch books (Amazon isn't great, in part because there are no reviews of Dutch-language books, even though some are sold there)?

I don't think I've ever read a book by a Dutch writer. I did check out a Japan travel book by Eric's Sees Klootevroom. Eric's description--"elegantly turgid," with the stress definitely on turgid, is exact. I think I managed fifteen pages, if that.
 

Liam

Administrator
Does anyone want a free book? Eline Vere by Louis Couperus, translated from the Dutch by Ina Rilke (Archipelago Books, 2010). Somebody gave it to me months ago; I can't believe they thought I would *enjoy* this 19th century monstrosity! :rolleyes: Anyway, PM me, if yes.
 
J

John

Guest
They only use Louise Couperus to torture prisoners.
Anne Frank is the real deal. Ask Nelson Mandela.
 

Liam

Administrator
Haha, superficially, I think I'd have to agree. I was looking through this 500+ pp. novel and groaning. It did not look very promising.
 
J

John

Guest
She is really awful. I started this book by accident and quit after half a page.
 

peter_d

Reader
Stop finding excuses for the Dutch.
Just pick up a good English, German or Scandinavian book.

Seriously. Could one of the moderators open a Holland bashing thread in the general section for John? His comments have been tolerated long enough now in the serious threads, I believe. They were sometimes in the beginning. But not anymore now.
 
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