Elfriede Jelinek

Mirabell

Former Member
interesting exchange here:
http://www.nybooks.com/articles/20679

I have not read much of her novels apart from the goodbutnotgreat novel Gier (Greed), I love her plays, as far as I've read, though, very much, although watching a production of these plays in germany can be somewhat taxing.
I like this passage
In answer to my quizzing him on this issue, the excellent Michael Hulse, who has translated two of Jelinek's novels, remarked: "There's a dense wordplay or deft pun or neologism in every sentence. The linguistic ingenuity is dazzling in the German. My translation can't hold a candle to it."
The 'excellent' Michael Hulse is a decent poet as well, I might add.

I'm currently reading Children of the dead (Die Kinder der Toten) which is blowing me away. Awesome.
 

Bjorn

Reader
She's definitely one of the more interesting Nobel choices of recent years, even if she might not be the best. I've only read one Jelinek (Die Ausgesperrten - I think it's available in English as Wonderful, Wonderful Times for some reason) and I remember being both repulsed and fascinated by it - sort of a post-Nazi Clockwork Orange or a much harsher The Sailor Who Fell From Grace With The Sea in the themes it tackles. "Exhausting" sums it up pretty well. It was the kind of novel I wasn't sure if I liked, or if I disliked it because it made its points a little too well.

I can imagine that she might come across better as a playwright than as a novelist; her narrative voice is a little overbearing at times - she makes a point of telling us exactly what the characters think and why, down to the last ugly detail, leaving either almost nothing or almost everything to the reader.

I definitely wouldn't rule out reading something else by her, but she's not at the top of my pile.
 

Mirabell

Former Member
Read a few more plays. The level of control that she has of the German language is frightening. It's like having a poet like Merrill tackle prose or drama without regard for the genre itself, using neologisms, puns, idioms, metaphors, allusions as if they went out of style tomorrow.
 

Liam

Administrator
It's like having a poet like Merrill tackle prose or drama without regard for the genre itself, using neologisms, puns, idioms, metaphors, allusions as if they went out of style tomorrow.

So THAT's what it means to have a high level of control over language... Hmm, never thought of it that way, but point taken.

But if she keeps piling all that stuff sentence after sentence, doesn't it get tiresome after a while? I mean, I always thought that balance was the thing to strive for in art. Ya' know, moderation in everything.

I do think she's a good writer, although I bemoaned her winning the Nobel back in 2004 (was it? I'm too lazy to check)--but I've only read three of her books. Greed is next on my list--it is, thank god, mercifully short. The Children of the Dead is not available in English, so I checked the Russian translation (alas: my only foreign language, with the exception of Irish), and it was SO long and dense, I gave up after p. 20 or thereabout. However, if you will recommend it, Mirabell, I'll try to go back to it whenever I get the chance.

Although I loved the last couple of scenes in The Piano Teacher, I thought the glum little chappie taking the axe to his family, Raskolnikov-style, at the end of Die Ausgesperrten was a bit much. Put me off her, for a while, it did.

That said, I haven't read any of her plays--perhaps she really does excel in the theater.
 
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Bartleby

Moderator
Also, I had read that a translation of The Children of the Dead was under way via some university press (forgot which) and I asked them when it was due; they told me sometime in 2021.
 

Bartleby

Moderator
There is a good review of the book [The Children of the Dead] (in English) here.

Interesting review, albeit a short one. I really like the last sentence, for it summarises my feeling about the Austrian author:
[...]whether you agree with Jelinek about the political situation in Austria or not, she certainly makes her point.

sure, unlike Mirabell, I can only speak for her words in translation, in which sadly, especially in her case, with her constant puns (depending on the original language and Germanic culture) and plays with language in general, many things are bound to get lost. But some things remain, and they were enough to have made me appreciate her craft even when (in most cases) failing to align with her thinking; she is the epitome of voicing something strongly, assuredly and ingeniously enough that you can’t help but listen; agreeing or not being irrelevant.

alas, I didn’t take any notes nor did I review Lust back when I read it (earlier this year, in the beginning of corona, making it feel like it was ages ago...), but I remember being quite impressed by it; I can understand what Mirabell said before about her disregard for the novel genre being a most electrifying thing: she’ll not follow the rules of a perfect paragraph, in which in it one should develop one given idea to then follow with the next paragraph, instead amounting in one same bulk of text many different ideas and character presentations, shifting perspectives, having an omniscient narrator intrude and comment on the text, turning from novelistic voice to an essayistic one etc.

then, through these techniques she is able to weave some truly memorable scenes, such as one coming (pun intended) at nearly the end of Lust, being I believe its climax (needn’t repeat myself hehe), in which the protagonist, being rejected by her lover who only used her, being abused by her husband with the said lover watching, is engulfed in this mass of text, in which strange figures appear to mock at her, all of which collaborating to create a sort of textual maelstrom around her, through which we can see her as if from afar, with the focus shifting from her in her most vulnerable state, thus further emphasising her helplessness and loneliness.

then there’s her wittiness, which is another powerful tool for stating her case even while being at times hard to agree with. Take an instance from the prologue of Women as Lovers, in which she ironically paints this deceitfully idyllic scene of a BEAUTIFUL little town with its factory controlling life, presenting the interplay of women and love, all in a seemingly simple, fairytale-like style throwing into relief the (perceived) ugliness in the place; anyway, in it alone there are many eye-popping sentences, but this one, being so succinct, makes me giggle every time: “often these women marry or they are ruined some other way.”.

so yeah, for these reasons I find Jelinek a most exciting writer, one I can definitely see myself reading everything I can find by her for the playfulness and command of her language alone.
 
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Liam

Administrator
Her books ought to come with a warning.

"Consuming this product may cause sleeplessness, nausea, depression and increased feelings of human anguish and worthlessness."

:)
 

Bagharu

Reader
Her books ought to come with a warning.

"Consuming this product may cause sleeplessness, nausea, depression and increased feelings of human anguish and worthlessness."

:)
I have just finished my Melancholy of Resistance and am in the middle of One Hundred Years of Solitude, now a heavy dose of 'Lust' sounds like the perfect last nail on this depression coffin,...:p
 

Liam

Administrator
One would think that "a heavy dose of lust" would otherwise help a person with their depression, but not in Jelinek's world... ?
 

Bagharu

Reader
One would think that "a heavy dose of lust" would otherwise help a person with their depression, but not in Jelinek's world... ?
Well, every dose of Lust is manageable if it can find salvation, but in this Corona time, with this all encompassing loneliness, alas, you guys have just conspired to make an innocent a victim of this deadly sin!
 

Bartleby

Moderator
Her books ought to come with a warning.

"Consuming this product may cause sleeplessness, nausea, depression and increased feelings of human anguish and worthlessness."

:)
Agreed, for after all the language juggling you will also need a bath to wash yourself clean :p
 

Ater Lividus Ruber & V

我ヲ學ブ者ハ死ス
Fabulous description of her novel, Bartleby. I'm glad to find another member who adores her work! She's a wonder.

Good or bad, I look forward to hearing your impressions on Die Kinder der Toten, Liam (if you ever get around to it).
 

Uemarasan

Reader
Yes, thank you for endorsing Jelinek, Bartleby. You’ve helped me remember that I saw a few of her books available locally, and now I’ll be checking them out soon!
 

Ben Jackson

Well-known member
You see guys, in as much as some of us love Jelinek, I don't really think I'm into her.

Why? In as much as I appreciate her language, which sounds musical, demonstrated in her masterpiece The Piano Teacher, I wasn't able to bring myself to love Piano Teacher, and when I tried to read Lust and Greed, I wasn't able to pass after few pages. Espmark talked about her plays as innovative and groundbreaking, but I haven't read her. And reading the description of Children of the Dead convinced me to not bother with her works. Maybe I'll make and attempt and read Wonderful Times or Women as Lovers. If anyone has read her plays, please feel free to share your experiences.
 

dc007777

Active member
You see guys, in as much as some of us love Jelinek, I don't really think I'm into her.

Why? In as much as I appreciate her language, which sounds musical, demonstrated in her masterpiece The Piano Teacher, I wasn't able to bring myself to love Piano Teacher, and when I tried to read Lust and Greed, I wasn't able to pass after few pages. Espmark talked about her plays as innovative and groundbreaking, but I haven't read her. And reading the description of Children of the Dead convinced me to not bother with her works. Maybe I'll make and attempt and read Wonderful Times or Women as Lovers. If anyone has read her plays, please feel free to share your experiences.

I think Wonderful Wonderful Times is much better than Lust and Greed. It is a lot darker (imagine) than The Piano Teacher though.
 

Bartleby

Moderator
A very interesting review of Jelinek's Children of the Dead for those interested in the novel. Reading the review, I'm skeptical in checking the novel, just like most of Jelinek's works. She reminds me, somehow, of Houllebecq.
thanks for the review! I finally got my hands on this book, on my kindle. Not sure if I'm gonna read it soon, tho, it seems too dauting an affair. But the last paragraph (especially the highlighted part) reassured me that when I do read it it's gonna be something to my liking:

“It takes so little to be dead,” the narrator says, “and yet death is so difficult to grasp.” Jelinek’s novel is finally a response to that difficulty. It is a furious accumulation of lost moments and possible outcomes, an enormous, spectral kaleidoscope erected before the unfathomable. There is solace in the fact that death’s injustice is shared by all humanity — but not much: “We, the recovered ones, experienced it all, and now we talk about it as if a word had just brushed against us and, in passing, suddenly stepped on us.”
 
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