How are old Nobel laureates from your home country viewed there?

Australia's only Nobel Laureate, Patrick White, is basically forgotten here.

ABC (our equivalent to the BBC) has a website dedicated to him titled, Why Bother With Patrick White? http://www.abc.net.au/arts/white/default.htm. Which is an interesting read.

In the corners of dusty bookstores you will find his work, but that's about it. People in their 50s - 70s remember him fondly as an author "everyone read", but nowadays that is not the case, and it's hard to see his imprint on younger Australian writers.

There was a stunt a few years back where the opening chapters from one of his novels was sent to all the Australian publishers, including, I think, his own, and he was soundly rejected. But that kind of thing doesn't really say much.
 

Heteronym

Reader
Which Portuguese writers are considered better candidates by those who dislike Saramago? Unfortunately it's one of those European literatures that don't see much English-language translation or exposure

Regarding novels, Agustina Bessa-Luís and António Lobo Antunes. I think Agustina is worthless and although I'm not crazy about Lobo Antunes, I wouldn't be mad if he received it one day.

(there's also only one Portuguese filmmaker anyone knows, Oliveira, if only because he's about 150 years old now and still cranking out a film a year).

His movies are awful and he's only famous because of his longevity, as if that made him more talented. There are filmmakers in their thirties and forties and making better movies than Oliveira, with all his so-called experience, ever did. Portuguese cinema is generally bad, I advise you to stay away from it.
 

Uemarasan

Reader
His movies are awful and he's only famous because of his longevity, as if that made him more talented. There are filmmakers in their thirties and forties and making better movies than Oliveira, with all his so-called experience, ever did. Portuguese cinema is generally bad, I advise you to stay away from it.

I've read otherwise. The cinephile community disagrees wholeheartedly with this, as evidenced by such lucid writing as here:

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/waiting-for-the-whole-sky-all-diamonds

And, really, Portuguese cinema has Pedro Costa, Miguel Gomes, and Joao Pedro Rodrigues. All great filmmakers (particularly Costa). I'd say that Portuguese national cinema is in very good shape.

Just on a tangent (and not addressing anyone in particular), but I am reminded of how excellent literary critics aren't exactly the best film critics and vice-versa. They seem to focus all too much on a film's literary qualities...
 
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maidenhair

Guest
And, really, Portuguese cinema has Pedro Costa, Miguel Gomes, and Joao Pedro Rodrigues. All great filmmakers (particularly Costa). I'd say that Portuguese national cinema is in very good shape.

I do not know much about Portuguese cinema, but Tabu was excellent.
 
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liehtzu

Reader
I've read otherwise. The cinephile community disagrees wholeheartedly with this, as evidenced by such lucid writing as here:

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/waiting-for-the-whole-sky-all-diamonds

And, really, Portuguese cinema has Pedro Costa, Miguel Gomes, and Joao Pedro Rodrigues. All great filmmakers (particularly Costa). I'd say that Portuguese national cinema is in very good shape.

Just on a tangent (and not addressing anyone in particular), but I am reminded of how excellent literary critics aren't exactly the best film critics and vice-versa. They seem to focus all too much on a film's literary qualities...

Which is funny, because there isn't a more "literary" filmmaker around than Oliveira. The guy has adapted all sorts of (often fairly obscure) literary sources for his works, and even made an eight-or-so-hour movie from Paul Claudel's play The Satin Slipper. And for the record I think Oliveira's quite a good director, though he is self-consciously old-fashioned. Particular films stand out: A Talking Picture, about the death of the grand European cultural tradition, and Journey to the Beginning of the World, Marcello Mastroianni's last film I think, in which a man revisits the place he spent his childhood in Portugal. There are also a few other fine ones... can't recall an Oliveira film I dislike, save Word and Utopia (?), which is punishingly slow.

As for Australia's "forgotten" Nobel laureate, Patrick White, there still remains a coterie of diehards who insist that he's one of the Nobel winners who certainly shouldn't be forgotten - I count myself among them. He's simply one of the finest English-language fiction writers of the 20th century, but he's not a smooth or easy writer by any means, and I imagine more than a few readers have thrown their hands up in despair after a hundred pages of, say, The Vivisector or The Aunt's Story.
 

Uemarasan

Reader
Which is funny, because there isn't a more "literary" filmmaker around than Oliveira. The guy has adapted all sorts of (often fairly obscure) literary sources for his works, and even made an eight-or-so-hour movie from Paul Claudel's play The Satin Slipper. And for the record I think Oliveira's quite a good director, though he is self-consciously old-fashioned. Particular films stand out: A Talking Picture, about the death of the grand European cultural tradition, and Journey to the Beginning of the World, Marcello Mastroianni's last film I think, in which a man revisits the place he spent his childhood in Portugal. There are also a few other fine ones... can't recall an Oliveira film I dislike, save Word and Utopia (?), which is punishingly slow.

As for Australia's "forgotten" Nobel laureate, Patrick White, there still remains a coterie of diehards who insist that he's one of the Nobel winners who certainly shouldn't be forgotten - I count myself among them. He's simply one of the finest English-language fiction writers of the 20th century, but he's not a smooth or easy writer by any means, and I imagine more than a few readers have thrown their hands up in despair after a hundred pages of, say, The Vivisector or The Aunt's Story.

Well, just to clarify, but what I meant to say was that people who are very good readers of literature often tend to focus on elements such as dialogue, character development, plot, theme, etc. rather than mise en scene when it comes to film.

As for what this thread was originally about, Kawabata and Oe are still highly respected in Japan, and are definitely still part of the discourse on traditional written literature.
 
As for Australia's "forgotten" Nobel laureate, Patrick White, there still remains a coterie of diehards who insist that he's one of the Nobel winners who certainly shouldn't be forgotten - I count myself among them.

I mentioned that I quite enjoy Patrick White, but there's no real denying that he's forgotten here in Australia. Not a single high school or primary school child would have read a word of his, and I myself received an entire literature and history degree without touching on him at all - and two of the subjects were specifically devoted to Australian literature. My professor's excuse - "White is too hard". Granted, this was undergraduate, but even still... (we read plenty of mid-level and trash-level Australian literature).
 

Heteronym

Reader
Regarding Portuguese cinema, I can only say I'm baffled by the positive reception it has here. Few people here stand those pseudo-intellectual wastes of celluloid that Portuguese filmmakers take to Cannes and Berlin. They may win prizes abroad, but there's no domestic audience for them. As for the movies that don't go abroad but attract crowds, trust me, those you really don't want to watch.

I can't sit through the movies of Manuel de Oliveira, and Tabu was a good remainder why I tend to avoid Portuguese cinema like the plague. My perception tells me it's poorly written, directed and acted, although the technical aspect varies wildly. I'd rather watch Martin Scorsese, Paul Thomas Anderson, Michael Haneke, the Coen brothers, David O. Russell, Quentin Tarantino, etc., any day, and do actually.
 
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maidenhair

Guest
[Tabu] is one of the most original and inventive—as well as trenchantly political and painfully romantic—movies of recent years. It’s a film in a rare genre: its plot is so adroitly and sensitively imagined and realized that a mere telling of the things that take place would suffice to reveal the depth of the director’s imaginative discernment—his ample and nuanced vision of the extraordinary elements and implications of ordinary lives. But it’s also realized with a casually audacious sense of cinematic form even as it ignores conventional wisdom regarding cinematic politics.
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...nsights-of-tabu-directed-by-miguel-gomes.html

or this

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/film-week-tabu

Thanks god, I was already getting nervous that it could be only due to my deranged viewing habits that I liked this movie, but obviously also film experts enjoyed it... :p
 

Uemarasan

Reader
Regarding Portuguese cinema, I can only say I'm baffled by the positive reception it has here. Few people here stand those pseudo-intellectual wastes of celluloid that Portuguese filmmakers take to Cannes and Berlin. They may win prizes abroad, but there's no domestic audience for them. As for the movies that don't go abroad but attract crowds, trust me, those you really don't want to watch.

I can't sit through the movies of Manuel de Oliveira, and Tabu was a good remainder why I tend to avoid Portuguese cinema like the plague. My perception tells me it's poorly written, directed and acted, although the technical aspect varies wildly. I'd rather watch Martin Scorsese, Paul Thomas Anderson, Michael Haneke, the Coen brothers, David O. Russell, Quentin Tarantino, etc., any day, and do actually.

Hmm, personally, I'd rather take "pseudo-intellectual" than Haneke and the Coens (morally dubious, emotionally manipulative), O. Russell (cinematographically incompetent), or Tarantino (just mediocre - sometimes it's better to watch the real deal than the pastiche). I do like Scorsese and PTA, though.
 

Uemarasan

Reader
http://www.newyorker.com/online/blo...nsights-of-tabu-directed-by-miguel-gomes.html

or this

http://www.bfi.org.uk/news/film-week-tabu

Thanks god, I was already getting nervous that it could be only due to my deranged viewing habits that I liked this movie, but obviously also film experts enjoyed it... :p

Here as well:

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/berlinale-2012-miguel-gomess-tabu

http://cinema-scope.com/festivals/festivals-berlin-a-few-crazy-thoughts-on-tabu/

For my money, MUBI is the best forum for film criticism on the web. They have some of the best film critics writing for them. Advanced cinephilia. And Cinema Scope probably among the best film journals.
 

Stevie B

Current Member
the Coens (morally dubious, emotionally manipulative)QUOTE]

I'm not sure what you mean by "morally dubious" in this context. Are you suggesting films shouldn't feature morally dubious characters or do you have some inside information regarding the morality of the Coen brothers themselves?
 

Uemarasan

Reader
the Coens (morally dubious, emotionally manipulative)QUOTE]

I'm not sure what you mean by "morally dubious" in this context. Are you suggesting films shouldn't feature morally dubious characters or do you have some inside information regarding the morality of the Coen brothers themselves?

That the films are morally dubious.

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/true-grit-voids-and-trajectories

http://mubi.com/notebook/posts/tiff-09-a-serious-man-joel-coen-ethan-coen-usa

http://www.jonathanrosenbaum.com/?p=7912
 
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redhead

Blahblahblah
I'm not really sure I understand the articles and what the author is trying to say other than, "I don't like these movies, and here's some vague reasons why."
 

Uemarasan

Reader
I'm not really sure I understand the articles and what the author is trying to say other than, "I don't like these movies, and here's some vague reasons why."

That's understandable. They're for people with an advanced knowledge and comprehension of film. I suggest The House Next Door for beginners or if you need some formalist or "literary" reading of a film. Strangely enough, two of the articles don't even say whether or not their respective authors like the films they're discussing.

Besides, there are the limitations of space and demand in print journalism and blogs (if you want something more thorough, you can buy books on film), although I don't know how these can be construed as vague at all:

"In the past, the Coens have gotten a lot of mileage out of ridiculing most country folk for their stupidity while singling out a chosen few for admiration. But here, in deference to the source material, the condescension is toned down considerably. They show off their narrative expertise by converting some of the sheriff’s plaintive monologues into terse dialogue and even more in the way they juxtapose the separate movements of Moss and Chigurh, sketching out a suspenseful cat-and-mouse game with some of the primal impact of silent pictures.

What gives all of this a special kick is the way the killer commits murder without so much as a twitch, behavior we’re clearly expected to regard with a certain amount of awe. Chigurh isn’t an intellectual like Hannibal Lecter, and he lacks his cosmopolitan sense of humor, but he slays many more innocent people. And except for a stray line toward the end of the film, when he briefly alludes to his own birth being occasioned by blind chance, there isn’t a trace of psychological speculation about what makes him tick — only a passing remark by Carson Wells that he operates according to a twisted moral code of his own."

"Daniel Kasman summed up the Coens' A Serious Man (and Haneke's like-minded The White Ribbon) like this here last year: "a cinema of such precise predetermination that the movies are in essence over before you even sit down to watch them." This applies to True Grit as well, but, as in the Coens' better films, the predetermination is less a question of subjecting the characters to a gauntlet and more an outgrowth of the characters themselves. Throw Jeff Bridges' borderline-incomprehensible drunk, Hailee Steinfeld's determined girl, Matt Damon's flamboyant Texan and Josh Brolin's Neanderthal bandit into any scenario, and you'd probably end up with the same outcome, because their characters, however well-defined, are unbendable. This, essentially, is what makes True Grit an anti-classical Western (however "old-fashioned" it may try to present itself as being), because the classical Westerns, even Budd Boetticher's leanest, built their dynamics around a pliability of character; rules and motivations were bent, either by the landscape or by the needs of the community / group. The characters of True Grit, on the other hand, travel towards each other in straight lines across the desolate Indian Territory; their inevitable collisions are not a question of fate or morality, but entirely based on their personas—and this, in turn, raises the question of whether the film is nihilist or existentialist."
 
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