Nobel Prize in Literature 2009

Daniel del Real

Daniel del Real

Moderator
peter_d said:
I know a writer that could have deserved it for the same purposes as described above: Ismail Kadare. (And don't say again that he wasn't brave enough to stay in Albania, I still feel a bit upset about that... don't force me write long long essays in his defence on this forum ;) ).

Not that I have anything against Herta M?ller personally, or against her work (since I haven't read anything of it), but yet I still can't get over that 'age issue'. I always thought of the Nobel prize in literature as being a kind of lifetime achievement award, for writers who have proven all throughout their careers to be consistent in producing great work of art.

Not that I want them to select only writers who are 80+, but 56 might be someone halfway a career. I interpreted this as a message of the comittee saying to Kadare or Fuentes or Roth or Magris or Achebe or Nooteboom (or whatever good writer being born in the 1920's, 30's or even maybe early '40s): 'This author has produced greater work than you have, even though she is 20 years younger. So forget about it, guys.' So my biggest question to the committee: What would have been the problem with waiting to award it to Herta M?ller for let's say at least 5 to 10 years?
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I support every single word you wrote Peter.

Now my next questions is, Is it more profitable through the years for the literary world to have young Nobels?
Maybe
A Nobel is a guarantee that the author will sell good for at least 5-10 years. If you award authors in their 50's, they have a lot of books to write, and of course, the editors have a lot to sell.
Again this might be my very well established paranoia, but everything right now moves around money, so it could be.
 
LRiley

LRiley

Reader
Just got a couple of Muller's books today and started reading The Appointment. I'm not that far into it but I can't say she reminds me of Jelinek very much. At least she's missing the strident tones. With respect to that I think this might be quite a bit better.
 
S

Scott89119

Reader
The Appointment's non-linear tone actually reminded me a bit of Toni Morrison. I cannot identify any definite story arc, but maybe Muller's objective was just to have the protagonist have an unconscious train of confused thoughts while en route to a meeting she knows will be taxing.
 
Dante Newton

Dante Newton

New member
There is a fact I would like to broach. That is, I cannot have a clear understanding of why, you know, people who are not of English speaking country could have won the prize. The election of foreigners seems to be overarching, and English people seems to become less important in literature,
 
Bjorn

Bjorn

Reader
Dante Newton said:
There is a fact I would like to broach. That is, I cannot have a clear understanding of why, you know, people who are not of English speaking country could have won the prize. The election of foreigners seems to be overarching, and English people seems to become less important in literature,
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Because it's an international award, and is not even based in an English-speaking country?
Alfred Nobel said:
It is my express wish that in awarding the prizes no consideration be given to the nationality of the candidates, but that the most worthy shall receive the prize, whether he be Scandinavian or not.
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waalkwriter

waalkwriter

Reader
And yeah, if what you're saying is accurate it does seem soon..this is what troubles me about the Nobel, the complete inconsistency. On the other hand you can have someone like Pynchon who wrote a genuine masterpiece like Gravity's Rainbow over three and a half decades ago and hasn't been recognized.
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I would not call Gravity's Rainbow a masterpiece beyond being incredibly dense and indecipherable, I feel no shame about saying it, Gore Vidal can give Greek monologues from memory and even he could not, as a critic, read the book within a one year period. He gave it as much credit as I do; being written cleverly and being the perfect book to be taught in college. Post-modernists exhaust me with their focus on form, even while they seemingly abhor form as we perceive they actually make the most intense and self-conscious decision of any writing style to achieve a form of their own. I have violently asserted for a long time that no post-modernist deserves to win the Nobel, better Cormac McCarthy than a post-modernist.

I would like to see an American Dramatist like Edward Albee win it though, and other top authors I have a very strong desire to see win it are Umberto Eco, Carlos Fuentes, and Amos Oz; Edward Albee would light up the American lit world and he is more than deserving as perhaps the greatest dramatist over a period of 50 years after Eugene O'Neil died. The others all have a good deal more star power and are all much more prominent public intellectuals than Muller. Peter Handke would be another interesting choice of German writers to win it.
 
Mirabell

Mirabell

Former Member
waalkwriter said:
Peter Handke would be another interesting choice of German writers to win it.
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Yeah but no. Eulogizing Milosevic is an automatic disqualification for this prize, I think. This is part of his literary work and that part I can't square with the idea of the prize (the idealistic thingie).

I don't think Gravity's Rainbow is indecipherable and Vidal's essay while a lotr of fun to read is willfully ignorant, he basically states what kind of book and writing he finds acceptable and smashes everything else without even trying to comprehend it. It's like Eric between pro-communist books. That just doesn't work and it's no wonder he took so long to finish the book. I don't think he really tried. A few pages here and there, at best. The essay is wonderful, but part of why it's so good is its clarity. Vidal doesn't hide what I just describe. It's out in the open.
 
waalkwriter

waalkwriter

Reader
You've hit Vidal right on the head there, that is exactly it; but I happen to fully agree with his taste so his willful dislike of the genre is fine by me; I have been unable to force myself to like post-modernism and fine there are strong arguments to be made against it as rather shallow, self-conscious and frivolous.

Yes, Handke is in an enigma to me, at least his political and intellectual views are. I understand his feelings had something to do with sheer animosity for the way it was handled and a combination of anti-EU and anti-American feelings but that still doesn't explain giving a eulogy to a leader whose policies led to mass genocide. Is Handke a communist, fascist, libertarian or what? I can't peg what his intellectual views are.
 
promtbr

promtbr

Reader
Wow, I hope John Hawkes is part of that handful. (I thought you liked him).

I am OK with pomo writing dismissed on the basis of readerly tastes (as I think we have had a discussion on reader's tastes somewhere;););))


Just wait 50 years or so (if we are still around) postmoderninsts will be called something else and there will be other variations of novel form (as there has been throught out the novel's history) and there will be those readers weened on the novel they read growing up that will find the new ___________ists not to their tastes as well.
 
Mirabell

Mirabell

Former Member
Oh, gorgeous,

I guess we're lucky you like any writer whose books were written after burning people on stakes became unfashionable.

;)
 
Liam

Liam

Administrator
promtbr said:
Wow, I hope John Hawkes is part of that handful. (I thought you liked him)...
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Ah, I do. Sweet William and An Irish Eye being two of my particular favorites. I have yet to dip into his early oeuvre (beyond The Blood Oranges): The Lime Twig, The Beetle Leg, The Cannibal, etc.

Umberto Eco, A. S. Byatt, and Michael Cunningham are some of the other modern writers whose work I adore (though in Cunningham's case, only his last two novels may "qualify" as fully- or partially-postmodern).

Mirabell said:
I guess we're lucky you like any writer whose books were written after burning people on stakes became unfashionable.
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Yeah, yeah, what can I say, it comes with the territory. In the Middle Ages they referred to themselves as dwarfs standing on the shoulders of giants. They thought they could "see" better, burning people at the stake notwithstanding, because they stood higher AND they had Christianity which the ancients lacked.

What was it that Proust once said about things always remaining the same, no matter how much they seem to change outwardly? ;)

And I think Randy's right, 50 years from now, if our planet is still livable, we will look back on this and thank the PoMos (lol) for their contribution.
 
Daniel del Real

Daniel del Real

Moderator
waalkwriter said:
I would not call Gravity's Rainbow a masterpiece beyond being incredibly dense and indecipherable, I feel no shame about saying it, Gore Vidal can give Greek monologues from memory and even he could not, as a critic, read the book within a one year period. He gave it as much credit as I do; being written cleverly and being the perfect book to be taught in college. Post-modernists exhaust me with their focus on form, even while they seemingly abhor form as we perceive they actually make the most intense and self-conscious decision of any writing style to achieve a form of their own. I have violently asserted for a long time that no post-modernist deserves to win the Nobel, better Cormac McCarthy than a post-modernist.
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Totally agree. Gravity's Rainbow is dense and indecipherable, and if that's not enough it's a huge brick. Don't see the point of wasting that much paper.

I'm not familiarized with the term "post-modernists" you're handling here, so please if you could give a few names and tell me why they are taged under this category, it'd help a lot
 
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