Nobel Prize in Literature 2013

nagisa

Spiky member
Davus, maybe you should look up structural sexism. It's not that "diversity is more important than quality" these days, it's that the people getting recognized for quality are getting more diverse. When you widen your pool of candidates beyond "old, white guy", you're bound to end up including the minority-that-is-not-a-minority: women. What, are women just bad writers in your view ?

I for one am very happy that Munro got the Prize. I've only read Runaway, but I remember being totally captivated; her prose is exquisitely delicate.
 

Abaris

New member
Abaris, thank you, thank you, thank you. WereWere and Will Alexander, what wonderful recommendations! My weekend is booked, thanks to you.

You’re very welcome! Now if someone could just alert the Swedish Academy with a nomination or two for these wonderful writers :)

I highly recommend Werewere Liking’s exquisite novels It shall be of jasper and coral and The Amputated Memory: A Song-novel. Her ritual dramas are also extremely interesting if you can manage to find them.

As for Will Alexander, Skylight Press recently published Kaleidoscopic Omniscience, an incredible collection of his important early work, though all of his poetry collections are worthwhile. The Poetry Foundation has several of his poems online for those who want to get a taste of his style. I am also quite partial to his experimental novel, Sunrise in Armageddon, which is nearly impossible to describe and utterly unlike any book I have ever read (and I read widely in world literature). It is the only novel in recent memory where, upon reaching the last page, I immediately returned to the first page and completely re-read the entire book, savoring each and every word. His use of language is so strange, uncanny . . . “dazzling” is really the only word I can muster to describe its effect upon the reader.
 

Abaris

New member
I second this. How wonderful to have something new to read this Nobel Prize weekend. Werewere Liking and Will Alexander are revelations.

Yes, revelations! That is *exactly* how I felt when I first discovered these two writers. Hope you enjoy reading them both! (See my post above for some recommendations.)
 

Abaris

New member
Back to Munro . . . The Nobel site has a charming telephone interview with her - it sounds like she's now tempted to return to writing from her recent retirement!

There's a nice piece on CNN (available here), an interview with The New Yorker's Deborah Treisman, which provides a surprisingly decent analysis of her merits (while also addressing the issue of sexism).
 

Stiffelio

Reader
Does Alice Munro winning the prize means that another short story writter won't win it any soon? Because some of my favorites in this gender can wait some more years (like Cesar Aira), but I'm not very sure about others (Rubem Fonseca or Dalton Trevisan, both 88-years-old)...

César Aira writes novels. They are short, sometimes very short (around 100 pages) but they're still novels.
 

Stiffelio

Reader
Yeah, but her significant international presence started less than ten years ago. Her first BIG international success was Man Booker International Prize 4 years ago. When she was 78. It's hardly 'five decades' (though I know that she started publishing in the 1960s but that's irrelevant).

You obviously haven't read enough of Munro's work or about her trajectory, or have some inexplicable sour grapes to swallow, but she's been in the international limelight for decades. I myself was first drawn to read her because she was getting all these important awards, and that was back in the 80s. So, if you want to continue to moan about her receiving the Nobel prize please do your homework.
 
I don't want to aggravate the gender debate further than it has already developed, but I think the question of quality is one that is worth bringing up whenever the Nobel if awarded. To that end, I think it is worth pointing out that the Nobel remains an incredibly conservative organization when it outlines who writes works of quality and what shapes those works are expected to take. I think, though, that it is important to note that we are in a historical period where there are efforts to recognize the accomplishments of women, and the accomplishments of people from around the world. I say this as a historian, which is my profession, and as one who studies the shift in cultural values among Europeans and North Americans through the 20th Century. Certainly, if Munro had been writing in 1906 she would not have been awarded for her accomplishments. While this is not because she is a woman, this would have played a particularly important role. I say this not because the Nobel Committee itself was opposed to recognizing the incredible accomplishments of female writers during this period, but because they were perhaps less aware of them. Just as now I am less aware of the (I am sure) dozens of female authors in the world that are worthy of the Nobel.

But, if I were asked to name who I would hope to win next years, I could list off a good 5 or 6 men that I think are worthy of winning the award. Hell, I could do that with just American men (McCarthy, DeLillo, Pynchon, Ashbery, Roth, Johnson). Women, though? Ummm... no. This is because the production, promotion, and consumption of literature often works in favour of male authors, for plenty of (mostly bad) reasons, and not because I am relatively new to reading astounding (rather than simply good) literature. Women, in 1906 and now, have a hard time in an already ridiculously hard field to get notice - particularly if they write literature instead of simply good books that can be promoted and may in fact sell well.

All of this, though, is perhaps tangential to what I am really wanting to say. Which is that, if women are now being recognized in a higher amount because of a historical moment in which we are trying to recognize their accomplishments more evenly with men (and this is, indeed, a politically motivated change in behaviour), then the failure to recognize women prior to the last few years was also a historical moment when women, despite writing some of the most intelligent and impressive literature of the period, were not seen as producing works of the same value as men. If we are in a historical moment where "quality" (however it is to be judged) is no longer the deciding factor in how the award is given out, then we would be foolish to suggest that, prior to this moment when women are being recognized (whenever it began, somebody earlier in this thread noted that only 6 of the last 23 have been awarded to women), they were not in a historical moment when "quality" was less a deciding factor and politics were more of one. It isn't as though the Nobel has ever been, or ever can be simply about quality because the ways in which we measure quality and the people whose quality we recognize are themselves historically determined. Ever since discovering Lu Xun's work I have been unable to figure out how he did not receive the Nobel. He certainly had the talent, and an awareness of his surroundings, and was a master with the pen. So why not? Well, only history can explain it. Not some naive desire to have a ridiculously objective category of "quality" constructing our notions of the Nobel Prize, then and now.


That said (and here I get to the point of this thread rather than what has come to define it, sadly), I must use this word when describing Munro's work. I find it to be of the highest quality, but perhaps this is because I find that she speaks to me in some way. She writes about people beautifully. Her characters of full of experience and history, pain, sorrow, and sometimes even joy. Robust is perhaps the best word. But her characters are also never alone. The relationships they have with others are, themselves, full of experience and history, pain, sorrow, and sometimes even joy. They are never simple and yet they take so few words, sentences, commas, and paragraphs to develop into somebody that you can see and watch and feel breathing in the space around you.

Munro also writes with a careful awareness of the world she inhabits and watches with a philosophical eye. Her characters make discoveries. Her characters wrestle with these discoveries. Her characters run away, make new relationships, break old ones, returns to old ones, runaway again, grow up, grow old, grow weary, decide that they hate the one they married, discover that they love the one they are with... they discover in every moment that the world is less beautiful than we ever want it to be, and then they make concessions to live with it anyways while keeping an eye open for a way out - a new beginning or a return back to happier times. Munro does this in every story, in a way that is unfamiliar and surprising, and when "it" hits you, it hits you hard. I remember the places I have been when I have finished a story or a collection by Munro because they were deeply troubling, deeply arresting moments in my life.

Munro also managed to turn me on to Short Stories, which is an impressive feat seeing as I hated studying them in high school or during my undergrads. It was only in coming back to her, years after, because of my mother's suggestion, that I got it. She is brilliant, and all the more so when you are reading her at the pace that she must be read at. Slowly, carefully, wrapped in the warmth of her perfect sentences. And this is something that I find particularly important about Munro's accomplishments. Her structure is exactly as it should be in every single word and sound and comma and paragraph. And her sentences always have more than one story hidden in it. It is as though, somehow, her work is preparing you for the collapse of the world, and you just don't know that it is coming. Tension builds up in you throughout the story, but you don't feel it (and I have no idea how she manages to accomplish this).

Clearly, I have a deep affinity for her work. But she amazes me. She writes about ordinary people, in ordinary circumstances - on the same adventures we are all on in our day-to-day experiences - and manages to explain so much with so little. I look forward to reading her in ten years. Twenty years. Forty, fifty, sixty years, and passing her on to my one-day sons and daughters. If people deserve the Nobel for the quality of their accomplishment, then Alice Munro is one of those people that has been properly awarded. Of course, people don't deserve the Nobel for that reason, but she is, regardless, a more than deserving author.

(That said I do think there are many other living authors who are also deserving. So, perhaps it is not their chance today, and perhaps they will never have their day in the Nobel sun because today was not their day, but that does not diminish their accomplishments either. Faulkner's star may be brighter because of his Nobel Prize, but the actual "quality" of his writing is not better or worse for it. He was a talent before and after he received the prize, and would have been a talent without it. After all, we still talk about Borges and Calvino, non? I do hope that next year Ngugi gets a good shot at the prize, though.)
 
Isn't the Man Booker only for novels? For what work she was nominated?
As others have said, The Beggar Maid is a collection of short stories that 'passes' as a novel because they're all about the same people. Though in Canada we call it Who Do You Think You Are?; they changed the title everywhere else, which is kind of confusing.

Edit: I can't recall any previous Laureates who were exclusively writers of short fiction. Ivan Bunin, maybe, since he had "short novels" in addition to his short stories. Isaac Singer wrote both novels and short stories, and arguably should be thought of more as a short story writer than a novelist. Then you've got people like Hemingway and Faulkner, who wrote a lot of short stories in addition to their novels, but are largely remembered for the latter (Faulkner more then Hemingway).
 
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Stewart

Administrator
Staff member
She is brilliant, and all the more so when you are reading her at the pace that she must be read at. Slowly, carefully, wrapped in the warmth of her perfect sentences. And this is something that I find particularly important about Munro's accomplishments. Her structure is exactly as it should be in every single word and sound and comma and paragraph. And her sentences always have more than one story hidden in it. It is as though, somehow, her work is preparing you for the collapse of the world, and you just don't know that it is coming. Tension builds up in you throughout the story, but you don't feel it (and I have no idea how she manages to accomplish this).

Last night I plucked a Munro collection off my shelves and started, naturally, at the start. Moreso the start as the story I read was Walker Brothers Cowboy from her first collection, Dance Of The Happy Shades. My first reading was last night and, whether it be late night tiredness or a subconscious urge to read fast, I was a little underwhelmed. However, I read it again this morning, much slower, and saw so much more in the prose.

Based on this one story I agree with what you're saying about sentences having hidden stories within them. Aside from the main narrative you can pick up sibling rivalry between the narrator and her younger brother (through an aside about ice cream); the woman left to tend a farmstead folllowing her father's death and mother's disability; a mother who refuses to accept her downgrading in the world; and just so many other small throwaway lines that have a cunning depth all their own. Even this early into her prose, I can certainly see the ability that would earn her Nobel recognition.
 

Davus

Reader
You obviously haven't read enough of Munro's work or about her trajectory, or have some inexplicable sour grapes to swallow, but she's been in the international limelight for decades. I myself was first drawn to read her because she was getting all these important awards, and that was back in the 80s. So, if you want to continue to moan about her receiving the Nobel prize please do your homework.

Fair enough. But it can still be claimed that she's been translated to ONLY 20 languages (as I've heard) and some of them - in lat 4 years (after winning International Man Booker Prize). You might say that writing in English makes writer 'international' from the start but I wouldn't agree. And you may even claim (as I would) that there's no much difference between her writing and the American one in terms of "insularity" (adjective used by Engdahl when he was talking about American literature). Her writing is stricly 'Canadian', at least I know her from this perspective, highly situated in one place and highly unsituated in the 'international dialogue of literature' (whatever that is).
But whatever. I was and am disappointed simply because I'm not her fan and I'd like to see many other writers receiving this prize. Even female, you see. Better Munro than Oates but Alexievich or Devi or Djebar would be far more interesting. (And yeah, Kundera, Rushdie, Ngugi, Konwicki, Różewicz and many other male writers would be even better :) )

But it is as it is and we have to live with that.
 

anchomal

Reader
One of the best things to come out of this year's betting rush was the highlighting of Svetlana Alexievich and Jon Fosse, two writers not very well known to many of us. This, for me, has always been one of the joys of the Nobel Prize, the bringing to prominence of under-appreciated writers. Okay, so neither won but these two writers in particular gained some nice exposure for their work. Maybe it is the Nobel Committee members themselves who are behind these betting surges, having learned a good lesson from previous (apparent) leaks. As they can generally only award one writer a year, maybe they have found a new way to take advantage of another promotional technique.
 

Uemarasan

Reader
Munro also writes with a careful awareness of the world she inhabits and watches with a philosophical eye. Her characters make discoveries. Her characters wrestle with these discoveries. Her characters run away, make new relationships, break old ones, returns to old ones, runaway again, grow up, grow old, grow weary, decide that they hate the one they married, discover that they love the one they are with... they discover in every moment that the world is less beautiful than we ever want it to be, and then they make concessions to live with it anyways while keeping an eye open for a way out - a new beginning or a return back to happier times. Munro does this in every story, in a way that is unfamiliar and surprising, and when "it" hits you, it hits you hard. I remember the places I have been when I have finished a story or a collection by Munro because they were deeply troubling, deeply arresting moments in my life.

What a beautifully eloquent post! Thank you for that. This perfectly encapsulates what I experience whenever I read Munro. As Cleanthess mentioned earlier, she is certainly not a showy or formalistically daring writer. She doesn't use language in such a way that is meant to impress or call attention to itself or politicize or be clever or proclaim grand ideals and truths. She uses language in singular service to the craft of literature: to tell stories, to provide wonderfully lucid psychological insight, to carefully construct the world of a story. Compared to the other writers who reside in the so-called upper echelons of world literature, among swaggering, maximalist prose and verbal circuses, she might seem quaintly old-fashioned and conservative. Such humble stories about ordinary lives. I can understand why there are those who are surprised she was deemed Nobel-worthy.

But this is not what Munro sets out to do. She does not mean to be a writer or to be the voice of the dispossessed or the powerless. She does not desire to stand at the pulpit or forefront of a culture or a people. What she simply means to do is to write. With the utmost perfection of craft. I liken her work to that of a jeweler, constantly polishing the facets of her literary universe until they are splendid, prismatic with depth and brilliant with light. Though she is alive in Canada and I am time zones away in the rainy pockets of Asia, whenever I read her stories it is as if I am looking at myself and the world I inhabit in the brightness of exquisite gems. For me, this is her gift as a writer.

That's why I think it is a great disservice to say something like her work is literature for those who don't read literature. Perhaps it only means that what she writes isn't literature in the most obvious and grandest sense, but literature whose qualities are rendered nearly invisible by craft, whose pleasures are there to be discovered by those who possess the same patience and humility that she displays.

Her stories online:

http://www.openculture.com/2013/10/...e-winning-writer-alice-munro-free-online.html
 
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lhsl

Reader
César Aira writes novels. They are short, sometimes very short (around 100 pages) but they're still novels.

Not exactly. Aira's texts are on that border between long short stories/short novels/novelas. That's why many of his books are assembled in only one edition by the publishers house becoming a collection with two or three long short stories/short novels/novelas (what is not very common to do with novel but pretty usual to do with novellas and obligatory when we are talking about short stories). Another thing that helps me to see them as long short stories or novellas are there extension. Ok, we can have a short novel with only 100 pages, but a book by him I read last year "Haikus" which has only 50 pages in a pocket edition, Alice Munro has longer short stories than this and I have never seen anyone saying that she writtes novels.
 
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