Nobel Prize in Literature 2021 Speculation

[Liam]

@nagisa: Remember, Leseratte is from Brazil and English is not his/her first language. He/she may have simply chosen the wrong words. Next time ask them to elaborate and if the elaboration is not to your liking, THEN you can start a discussion and point out faulty thinking,

I know, it's rich coming from me, as I did the same thing time and time again, but this was years ago before I became forum admin.

@Leseratte: I think what nagisa is trying to point out is that, although "Japanese subtlety" may seem like a compliment, it should not apply to an entire group of people, because that is, as he said, "essentialist."

I am simplifying a lot, but modern scholarship/critical theory has a huge problem with essentialism, for good reason.

So basically when you say something like "All Russians are moody" or "All Brazilians are temperamental" or "All Finns are alcoholics," you are casting an entire group of people as something or other thereby denying them individuality.

Even compliments can be essentialist as in: "All women are beautiful." Because essentialism is a two-way street, theorists have been politely asking not to engage in it, whether negatively OR positively, to avoid among other things: racism, sexism, etc.

The examples I provided above can be read as both essentialist AND racist/sexist--never mind that the sentence about women is disguised as a compliment!

Anyway, I think THIS is what nagisa is trying to point out, but I don't want to put words in his mouth, so... I'll leave it at that,

PS. I think you meant "Japanese subtlety" as a compliment, btw. I sometimes catch myself doing the same thing, as in: "All Russian literature is DARK..."

 

[Bartleby]

@Bartleby Bartleby, thank you for this! I'm so sorry there is no shipping outside the US.

me too
oh I've just realised that on the link I'd shared there used to show all the t-shirts, but they're sold out now. I can't see them anymore
there were a couple I'd love to purchase...

btw, I'm on the dissenting opinion here about Kafka. It's my favourite from him so far (I haven't read Bird or 1Q84 yet - I mean, technically I've read about 200+ pages of the former and the first book of the latter, and I was loving them, but at the time things outside of my control prevented me from continue reading them; I plan to get to those novels, and all of his novels, soon tho).

edit: it seems like searching for Haruki Murakami shows you the models.

 

[nagisa]

I sometimes catch myself doing the same thing, as in: "All Russian literature is DARK..."

All Russian literature is hysterical. There, I'm doing it too.

Liam said it better than I am willing to, so let's leave it at that.

 

[redhead]

Although his name has been mentioned in passing, we haven’t really discussed Haruki Murakami.

By the way, on the topic of Murakami, I wonder who else from Japan could be a contender in the near future? There’s Yoko Ogawa and Yoko Tawada, and Ryu Murakami as well (though I’m not exactly a fan of his). I went through a phase a few years ago where I read all the translated Akutagawa prize winners I could find, but I haven’t kept up with those authors’ works so I can’t say much about them. Who else is there?

(If he were still alive, I think Kenji Nakagami would be in the conversation.)

 

[Liam]

All Russian literature is hysterical.

Agreed, and I love them for it!!! ?

 

[nagisa]

By the way, on the topic of Murakami, I wonder who else from Japan could be a contender in the near future? There’s Yoko Ogawa and Yoko Tawada, and Ryu Murakami as well (though I’m not exactly a fan of his). I went through a phase a few years ago where I read all the translated Akutagawa prize winners I could find, but I haven’t kept up with those authors’ works so I can’t say much about them. Who else is there?

(If he were still alive, I think Kenji Nakagami would be in the conversation.)

If Nakagami were alive he'd be a serious contender. Since he's not, Tawada seems more likely than Ogawa, if only for the unfortunate celebrity Ogawa has acquired due to the Housekeeper and the Professor (which is by no means representative of her wider work!). Tawada seems more "literary", between literary cultures, all that sexy jazz.

 

[Leseratte]

@nagisa: Remember, Leseratte is from Brazil and English is not his/her first language. He/she may have simply chosen the wrong words. Next time ask them to elaborate and if the elaboration is not to your liking, THEN you can start a discussion and point out faulty thinking,

I know, it's rich coming from me, as I did the same thing time and time again, but this was years ago before I became forum admin.

@Leseratte: I think what nagisa is trying to point out is that, although "Japanese subtlety" may seem like a compliment, it should not apply to an entire group of people, because that is, as he said, "essentialist."

I am simplifying a lot, but modern scholarship/critical theory has a huge problem with essentialism, for good reason.

So basically when you say something like "All Russians are moody" or "All Brazilians are temperamental" or "All Finns are alcoholics," you are casting an entire group of people as something or other thereby denying them individuality.

Even compliments can be essentialist as in: "All women are beautiful." Because essentialism is a two-way street, theorists have been politely asking not to engage in it, whether negatively OR positively, to avoid among other things: racism, sexism, etc.

The examples I provided above can be read as both essentialist AND racist/sexist--never mind that the sentence about women is disguised as a compliment!

Anyway, I think THIS is what nagisa is trying to point out, but I don't want to put words in his mouth, so... I'll leave it at that,

PS. I think you meant "Japanese subtlety" as a compliment, btw. I sometimes catch myself doing the same thing, as in: "All Russian literature is DARK..."

Thanks for ironing things out, Liam.

You are right, English is not my first language, but it used to be very good on account of much reading. Today I happen sometimes to forget some words or use a turn of phrase that does n´t belong to English. I think this happens to most non natives even to writers.
"Japanese subtlety" was, of course, meant as a compliment! It is exactly what fascinates me about Japanese Literature and Japanese Cinema, it´s , this combination of intensity and restraint, the force of the things and emotions it leaves unsaid, as if behind the written word there was a second invisible layer of words. I detect it even in UK born Ishiguro.

 

[Dante]

By the way, on the topic of Murakami, I wonder who else from Japan could be a contender in the near future? There’s Yoko Ogawa and Yoko Tawada, and Ryu Murakami as well (though I’m not exactly a fan of his). I went through a phase a few years ago where I read all the translated Akutagawa prize winners I could find, but I haven’t kept up with those authors’ works so I can’t say much about them. Who else is there?

(If he were still alive, I think Kenji Nakagami would be in the conversation.)

I would add Shuntarō Tanikawa and Hideo Furukawa.

 

[nagisa]

Agreed, and I love them for it!!! ?

Des goûts et des couleurs ?

 

[nagisa]

I detect it even in UK born Ishiguro.

So, unalloyed racism then ?

 

[Leseratte]

For Heaven´s sake, nagisa, can´t you distinguish a compliment?

 

[nagisa]

For Heaven´s sake, nagisa, can´t you distinguish a compliment?

Is "you're white, so you're beautiful" a compliment as well?

 

[redhead]

If Nakagami were alive he'd be a serious contender. Since he's not, Tawada seems more likely than Ogawa, if only for the unfortunate celebrity Ogawa has acquired due to the Housekeeper and the Professor (which is by no meanns representative of her wider work!). Tawada seems more "literary", between literary cultures, all that sexy jazz.

At her best, I really like Tawada’s work, but she strikes me as a bit uneven. Ex. I thought The Bridegroom was a Dog was awful, but enjoyed the two other stories bundled with it in the English collection. The Emissary also seemed a bit mediocre. Have you read her in Japanese or German? How does she read in the originals?

I also saw her give a “performance” once, which was mesmerizing. I say performance rather than reading because she continually switched languages throughout the talk so no one could completely follow, and also made use of a few props. I could see the SA liking how she plays with language.

I would add Shuntarō Tanikawa and Hideo Furukawa.

Unfortunately, I think Tanikawa’s time has passed, but Furukawa looks interesting

 

[nagisa]

Have you read her in Japanese or German? How does she read in the originals?

I have not yet, but reeeeeaaaaaally should. She's been on my list for a while now.

 

[Liam]

Now, now, let us just get along! We're all good people here, united by our love of literature,

 

[Liam]

I have a somewhat ignorant question: you guys have been bringing up a lot of Japanese authors upthread: are there any distinguished Japanese POETS that we should pay attention to? Y'all know how much I love poetry, ?

 

[tiganeasca]

Now, now, let us just get along! We're all good people here, united by our love of literature,

Literature? LITERATURE? No WONDER I've had so much trouble. I thought this was the World Ligature Forum!

(And to think I've been tying myself in KNOTS over all these strange posts!)

(See what I did there? Knots, ligatures... Get it? Knots...? Never mind.)

 

[Dante]

I have a somewhat ignorant question: you guys have been bringing up a lot of Japanese authors upthread: are there any distinguished Japanese POETS that we should pay attention to? Y'all know how much I love poetry, ?

Liam, Shuntarō Tanikawa is a great poet indeed!

 

[Dante]

Unfortunately, I think Tanikawa’s time has passed, but Furukawa looks interesting

I think he still has some chances: https://deadorkicking.com/shuntaro-tanikawa-dead-or-alive/ ?

 

[Dante]

At her best, I really like Tawada’s work, but she strikes me as a bit uneven. Ex. I thought The Bridegroom was a Dog was awful, but enjoyed the two other stories bundled with it in the English collection. The Emissary also seemed a bit mediocre. Have you read her in Japanese or German? How does she read in the originals?

I also saw her give a “performance” once, which was mesmerizing. I say performance rather than reading because she continually switched languages throughout the talk so no one could completely follow, and also made use of a few props. I could see the SA liking how she plays with language.



Unfortunately, I think Tanikawa’s time has passed, but Furukawa looks interesting

Sorry red, I thought you meant he PASSED (AWAY). Lol, my bad!