Septularisen
Reader
Last year I've read "En marge" his complete works translated in french tongue, and yes I can tell you that this is Nobel "material"...
But another one... Not this year in my mind!
Nobel Prize in Literature 2021 Speculation
- Thread starter The Common Reader
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But another one... Not this year in my mind!
Septularisen
Reader
Please no, not another one the same discussion!
We have spend pages and pages last year on that topic!
Many people say at that time that the SA will share the prize in 2020... We have seen the result...
My opinion on that as not change. For me the SA will never split again the prize!...
The Common Reader
Well-known member
Although his name has been mentioned in passing, we haven’t really discussed Haruki Murakami. He is a prolific author whose books have a large audience the world over. Every time I read one of them, I feel as if I need to concentrate very closely so as not to miss anything. Yes, I know this should be true for each and every book I open, but with Murakami details count and I have an almost febrile anxiety I’m going to miss something important. Of all the Murakami I have read, The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle seems to me his masterpiece: a novel with the emotional intensity and breadth of a Mahler symphony, a novel shot-through with all sorts of references to music that seems itself to have weirdly leitmotivic structure. So many strange details resurface, but the patterns only gradually emerge. It includes birds, both live and in sculpture, a missing cat, flashbacks to atrocities committed in Japanese-occupied Manchuria during WWII, something like a retelling of the story of Orpheus and Eurydice, fashion, computers in mid-1980s Japan, and so much else. Even if I were able to summarize the plot with any coherence, I would avoid doing so for fear of giving any of the detective story away. The fact that people, including many who don’t normally read much literary fiction, read and enjoy Murakami should not disqualify him from the prize.
nagisa
Spiky member
We have not discussed him because he does not deserve it. Evergreen article:
Why Haruki Murakami should not receive the Nobel Prize for Literature
Two elements of Murakami Haruki’s work make him an attractive Nobel candidate: the translational nature of his prose and the liberalism of his non-fiction projects. Both rely on credulity toward his veneer of multiculturalism and political relevance, and a willingness to refrain from comparing...
japantoday.com
The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is a mess of a book, it's not "leitmotivic" when Murakami sprinkles over the same elements he's been obsessed with forever.
Also, his writing is just... bland. Not even the self-conscious, alienating bland of écriture blanche, just bland — and that's before the ironing out by the English translation.
namelesshere
Reader
Personally, it was when I heard the news that Murakami had started selling t-shirts that I knew he had given up forever on his chances of winning the Nobel Prize.
Liam
Administrator
I'm having my morning coffee and savoring the word "leitmotivic,"
Leseratte
Well-known member
This is amusing, and yes, it get´s some of the surface of his writing. But what about the Japanese subtility?We have not discussed him because he does not deserve it. Evergreen article:
Why Haruki Murakami should not receive the Nobel Prize for Literature
Two elements of Murakami Haruki’s work make him an attractive Nobel candidate: the translational nature of his prose and the liberalism of his non-fiction projects. Both rely on credulity toward his veneer of multiculturalism and political relevance, and a willingness to refrain from comparing...
The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle is a mess of a book, it's not "leitmotivic" when Murakami sprinkles over the same elements he's been obsessed with forever. View attachment 889
Also, his writing is just... bland. Not even the self-conscious, alienating bland of écriture blanche, just bland — and that's before the ironing out by the English translation.
nagisa
Spiky member
What "Japanese subtlety"? What kind of essentialist nonsense is this? Also, Murakami is about as subtle as a brick.
Bartleby
Moderator
I love your description of reading his books! you perfectly capture the allure of his fiction. And while I personally don’t think he’s got what it takes to get this prize, I always enjoy reading him. To me he’s like a delicious but sugary dessert I allow myself having every now and then ?
The Common Reader
Well-known member
@nagisa Hi Nagisa! Thank you for your response, you raise a very interesting point regarding translation. Murakami himself has translated several American authors into Japanese, as it turns out, and his American translators have from time to time been in contact with him while translating his work into English: https://www.newyorker.com/books/page-turner/lost-in-translation Entire books have been written about the "ironing-out" of his work in English: https://www.theatlantic.com/culture...mi-translators-david-karashima-review/616210/ . It's frustrating to me that Jay Rubin has written a far more complete version of The Wind-Up Bird Chronicle and that the publisher decided to go with the abbreviated one. However the fact is that translation often involves ironing-out, far more that we might like to admit. I'm reminded of Isaac Bashevis Singer, who worked closely with several of his English-language translators to produce versions of his work that omit details from the Yiddish original, and who then strictly insisted that all further translations into other languages follow the English-language version, not the Yiddish. The Yiddish original of The Family Moskat goes on for several pages beyond where the English translation leaves off, for example. And yet, I am still grateful to have the translations of both of these books.
Philip Roth once said “I doubt that aesthetic literacy has much of a future [in America]. Two decades on the size of the audience for the literary novel will be about the size of the group who read Latin poetry – read Latin poetry now, that is, and not who read it during the Renaissance.” I think he was wrong, and part of the reason why is the fact that people read Murakami. Even in imperfect translations.
Philip Roth once said “I doubt that aesthetic literacy has much of a future [in America]. Two decades on the size of the audience for the literary novel will be about the size of the group who read Latin poetry – read Latin poetry now, that is, and not who read it during the Renaissance.” I think he was wrong, and part of the reason why is the fact that people read Murakami. Even in imperfect translations.
Americanreader
Well-known member
I agree, I've read 3 of his books, and they've all blurred together over time. He does have fervent fans though, and is tremendously popular worldwide, so I think his name will be in the conversation in the media until he passes. I've seen him called a modern day Dickens for his world wide popularity, but honestly I think that's kind of an insult to Dickens. Not to denigrate any Murakami fans here, different strokes for different folks.
hayden
Well-known member
Why on earth would people compare Murakami to Dickens? I mean... I think the only thing in common is that they're both writers. Weird.
I like Norwegian Wood. I think it's a very good novel. Same with Dance, Dance, Dance. Great starting points for him. Kafka on the Shore is okay-ish. Hard-Boiled Wonderland bored me. Men Without Women was kinda bad. I also enjoyed The Strange Library, but it's quite short. That's all I've read by him, and probably all I ever will. Wouldn't call myself a fan, but I'm also not one of those people insisting he has 0% chance at winning the Nobel. I mean, I don't think I've been to a bookstore anywhere in the world without one of his books on the shelf. Based on his following, I think he actually has decent odds this decade. I think I just find him more hit-or-miss than others.
And as much as that bingo card is an attempt to make fun of him, I think it actually makes his novels sound more appetizing than they actually are.
Those are some great ingredients. This is the big one from him that I've never read. Honestly, you've made it sound great. Always skipped over it because of its length, but maybe one day.
(Speaking of Murakami, a film adapted from one of his stories just played Cannes to raves).
redhead
Blahblahblah
True, I was too hasty before. I think if they only split prizes along geographic lines, there would be issues like you mention. But I still think more split prizes overall would be good, partially due to my previous reasoning, but also because in our interconnected world where we’re aware of so many more writers I’m not sure if it makes sense to award just one each year (if it ever did). Plus it could encourage some odder picks.
As for Murakami, I like him, but don’t think he’ll ever win now. I could imagine him winning in the mid-2000s if he was older at the time, but at this point he’s devolved into self parody. It doesn’t help that he’s self consciously becoming a “brand” now.
redhead
Blahblahblah
Check out some of Ngugi’s memoirs. I have mixed thoughts on his work, but those impressed me.
tiganeasca
Moderator
Thanks. I have no question that he is a man worth listening to. But as I believe I wrote in another thread, although I am usually impressed with and enjoy his themes and his topics, I find his (fiction) writing (I am speaking of things like diction and syntax) to be mediocre; his characters are too often stick figures and the situations too often contrived. I honor him for his decision to write in Gikuyu and believe he not only deserves to be heard but should be sought out for what he has to say...but his fiction doesn't seem to be the best place to find it.
Americanreader
Well-known member
Or try Decolonizing the Mind. A lot of good ideas in there!
The Common Reader
Well-known member
I had no idea! Where could I find one?
Bartleby
Moderator
Leseratte
Well-known member
First, nagisa, let´s remain polite and respect views that differ from ones own. I think politeness is part of the forum rules. I don´t know if you are Japanese, but you chose a Japanese nick.
I beg you to explain what you mean by "essentialist nonsense". I like Murakami, because of his style. He creates an atmosphere were much more is implied than said. And in my opinion this is an art that very few contemporaneous writers attain. But, of course, one may like it or not.
The Common Reader
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