Nobel Prize in Literature 2021 Speculation

[redhead]

Liam, I read the collection. Salad Anniversary by Machi Tawara a number of years ago. I don’t remember much of it, but I remember liking it overall

 

[Daniel del Real]

I'd say that's a harsh reading of what I wrote, by no means did I mean to imply anything of that sort. I was simply trying to say that I think what you wrote was hyperbolic and unlikely to be true.

I find it to be a theme that people assume the worst from the Swedish Academy, and I won't doubt that there has traditionally been reason to do so, but there has been a wide array of changes with the Academy in the last few years alone, and personally I think it's more fair to give them time to create new trends as opposed to blaming them for things done decades ago.

After the scandal and with the new external members they have awarded two europeans and a writer from the USA. Nothing seems to have changed.

Meh, I'd personally call both Ngugi and Le Clezio much better writers than Achebe.

After Dylan I consider Le Clezio the worst Nobel decision in the whole 21st century.

Two authors from Cuba! I name another two. Too bad Fina García Marruz is 98, ‘cause she is a very good poetess, actually. Nancy Morejón maybe doesn’t have that international status, despite the Struga Poetry Evenings in 2006.

I didn't like García Marruz' poetry. Too religious & dull. Not that I despise religious poetry as I really loved Ernesto Cardenal, but he also possesed a revolutionary and social aspect you cannot find in Fina.

 

[Liam]

After Dylan I consider Le Clezio the worst Nobel decision in the whole 21st century.

OMG, for me it's Jelinek! But Bob Dylan was the WORST of the worst, though I know he has countless defenders on this board, ?

 

[Daniel del Real]

That's easy: Queneau or Perec.

Talking about awarding "institutions" like the Nobel Peace Prize does, what about the Oulipó. It would have been great!

I would add Shuntarō Tanikawa and Hideo Furukawa.

I love Tanikawa's poetry so I'd be delighted if he wins. I've only read a novel from Furukawa and didn't like it.

What about Minae Mizumura? I've heard great things of her "A true novel" which I'll start once I finish the book I'm reading.
I'll let you know

 

[Daniel del Real]

OMG, for me it's Jelinek! But Bob Dylan was the WORST of the worst, though I know he has countless defenders on this board, ?

Haven't read hear so I cannot judge. Now there's a reason I haven't, so unappealing...

 

[DouglasM]

What's the problem with Jelinek? Honest question, never read her.

My least favorite winner in this century is, besides Dylan, Modiano. Not that he's bad - he's not. I just don't have him in such a high esteem.

 

[Liam]

I find Jelinek good not great. I know I'm being unfair because I have only read her in translation. And I haven't read any of her plays, which people say are AMAZING. I find her novels sloppily put together; I keep thinking whilst reading them: This is all very exciting, but it is NOT Literature. I don't know. Maybe one of these days I will change my mind. Her novel The Piano Teacher has been slowly growing on me,

 

[Cleanthess]

For me, the two worst winners of this century are: first, and by a large margin, Ishiguro, I cannot begin to tell you how bland and insipid a writer this guy seems to me.
Next in drabness, but separated by a huge distance from Ishiguro, is Glück. Compared to those two, all other winners, even Dylan, look wonderful and interesting.

 

[Leseratte]

Is "you're white, so you're beautiful" a compliment as well?

I was merely trying to express my admiration for Japanese culture. If this sentiment offends you so much I have no problem at all in excluding you from it.?
And that's all you will read from me on that topic.
Have a nice day!

 

[Morbid Swither]

By the way, on the topic of Murakami, I wonder who else from Japan could be a contender in the near future? There’s Yoko Ogawa and Yoko Tawada, and Ryu Murakami as well (though I’m not exactly a fan of his). I went through a phase a few years ago where I read all the translated Akutagawa prize winners I could find, but I haven’t kept up with those authors’ works so I can’t say much about them. Who else is there?

(If he were still alive, I think Kenji Nakagami would be in the conversation.)

I agree that Murakami can’t be eliminated from a serious conversation about Nobel speculation. His work has a very empirical universal appeal. And he has other idiosyncrasies that are again, universally resonate. Postmodern, popular….
But, for me that could also be said about Stephen King (and, personally, I think that horror as a genre deserves representation among Nobel laureates—but I consider an author such as Thomas Ligotti to be an ideal option. Philosophical horror. Pretty awesome!), or, even, Margaret Atwood.

 

[Morbid Swither]

Talking about awarding "institutions" like the Nobel Peace Prize does, what about the Oulipó. It would have been great!



I love Tanikawa's poetry so I'd be delighted if he wins. I've only read a novel from Furukawa and didn't like it.

What about Minae Mizumura? I've heard great things of her "A true novel" which I'll start once I finish the book I'm reading.
I'll let you know

Yes, the Oulipó would have been a unique joint prize; and I also think that (perhaps in place of Sartre) an award to Surrealism, could have been cool: Louis Aragon, Andre Breton, Paul Éluard. But the Oulipó is better.

 

[redhead]

When it comes to awarding “institutions,” on the one hand, literary movements tend to be disorganized, more often the result of people reacting to the times similarly rather than people consciously following set guidelines (I’m aware Oulipó is a bit of an outlier in this regard), but on the other, I’d much rather have them award multiple writers from the same movement or group rather than what they did with Claude Simon and Vicente Aleixandre where it seems to me they awarded a single writer long after the movement or group had been relevant.

 

[Morbid Swither]

Okay

When it comes to awarding “institutions,” on the one hand, literary movements tend to be disorganized, more often the result of people reacting to the times similarly rather than people consciously following set guidelines (I’m aware Oulipó is a bit of an outlier in this regard), but on the other, I’d much rather have them award multiple writers from the same movement or group rather than what they did with Claude Simon and Vicente Aleixandre where it seems to me they awarded a single writer long after the movement or group had been relevant.

I feel that…. And personally, I would fully endorse an award to Bei Dao, Duo Duo and Yang Lian. To me they are equally necessary voices of extraordinary poetic achievement. I believe these “misty” poets should be lauded.

 

[Daniel del Real]

Haven't read Yang Lian, but Bei Dao and Duo² are amazing poets. I've only read one book by each, but If I'd have to pick one it would be Duo.
By the way I have a novel by Bei Dao which I'm planning to read soon. When I bought the book online I honestly thought it was poetry. We'll see.

Don't care what everybody thinks, I'd love Murakami to win. Probably not the best author out there, but again, if such mediocre people like Dylan, Pinter or Le Clezio are winners, why not Haruki?

 

[Salixacaena]

OMG, for me it's Jelinek! But Bob Dylan was the WORST of the worst, though I know he has countless defenders on this board, ?

It's always hard for me to judge "worst" because there are authors I absolutely despise (Pinter) as writers but I can totally "get" why they won and what their impact on literature has been. As far as just least favorites of this century so far

Gao Xinjian - As soon as he won he basically stopped being an author and unless he has some massive wealth of untranslated material that's vastly different from what's currently available I find it hard to make a case for him being Nobel-worthy versus just finding his two novels interesting and his drama works politically controversial in the same way loads of non-winners drama works are (Ngugi, etc).

Coetzee - I have yet to find anything he's done truly profound or moving. Nearly every single thing I've read by him has just been sort of a 3/5 shrug for me. A lot of the way he treats race and gender seems very heavy handed and makes me cringe.

Pinter - I've read every play and seen quite a few of them. His poetry is horrendous. I'll never get the people that are baffled and upset at Dario Fo's win yet find Pinter acceptable.

Munro - It's... not my cup of tea.

Handke - Bleh

 

[Salixacaena]

Don't care what everybody thinks, I'd love Murakami to win. Probably not the best author out there, but again, if such mediocre people like Dylan, Pinter or Le Clezio are winners, why not Haruki?

Yep, agreed. It's hard for me to believe the Academy has passed on Murakami when they seem to be quite seriously considering Houllebecq, whose high school incel philosophy makes Murakami seem profound.

 

[Salixacaena]

btw, I'm on the dissenting opinion here about Kafka. It's my favourite from him so far (I haven't read Bird or 1Q84 yet - I mean, technically I've read about 200+ pages of the former and the first book of the latter, and I was loving them, but at the time things outside of my control prevented me from continue reading them; I plan to get to those novels, and all of his novels, soon tho).

I used to be the guy who shove Murakami down everyone's throats and rant about how great he was and Kafka is... not good. Easily one of his weakest works. It reads like Young Adult fiction for children. 1Q84 and his first few short story collections (Elephant Vanishes, Blind Willow Sleeping Woman, After the Quake) are all way better,

 

[Septularisen]

Although his name has been mentioned in passing, we haven’t really discussed Haruki Murakami.

And... another one the same discussion!
We have spend pages and pages the previous years on the same topic!
And? He didn't receive the Nobel (for the moment?...), and.? And nobody has change his opinion here!..
My opinion on that as not change too. For me MURAKAMI deserve the Nobel and will make a great winner!..

 

[Salixacaena]

if only for the unfortunate celebrity Ogawa has acquired due to the Housekeeper and the Professor (which is by no means representative of her wider work!). Tawada seems more "literary", between literary cultures, all that sexy jazz.

What is more representative of Ogawa's work? Because everything I've read has been very bad. At least by comparison The Housekeeper and the Professor seemed vaguely literary. I mean sure, she may have better stuff that's untranslated but Hotel Iris and Revenge were both 1/5 books me to and read like generic kink/bondage/spooky story junk. I can't imagine her remaining untranslated works are all vastly different in quality and subject matter.

The Memory Police fell flat for me in the same way that Samanta Schweblin's Little Eyes did, subject matter on authoritarianism and surveillance that's been beaten to death and isn't even remotely new being regurgitated in a way that's hardly profound or moving. It was clunky and most of its supposedly grand ideas seemed blatantly ripped out of a high school freshman English reading list (1984, Fahrenheit 451). Most Black Mirror episodes on Netflix do what this book was trying to do better.

 

[Septularisen]

By the way, on the topic of Murakami, I wonder who else from Japan could be a contender in the near future? There’s Yoko Ogawa and Yoko Tawada,

Yoko TAWADA, has all what the SA loves... So she will maybe be the next Nobel Prize for Japan...
You can forget the others two.
But another one... Not this year!