Undeserving Laureates

[Bjorn]

Re: The Nobel Prize

Let's see, as far as I know:

Bj?rnson: supposedly pretty important in Norway, no idea if he's still read as opposed to just considered important.
Lagerl?f: still very popular, one of very few Swedish writers whose works (almost) always remain in print.
Heidenstam: covered him in school. Haven't personally come across anyone who reads him since.
Hjellerup, Pontoppidan: don't know, wouldn't know, if Danes still read them.
Hamsun: still in print, still popular, still controversial.
Undset: still in print, still widely read, AFAIK. Have to get to her at some point.
Karlfeldt: see Heidenstam.
Sillanp??: no idea.
Jensen: no idea.
Lagerkvist: still (occasionally) in print, still read.
Laxness: still read, I think (including by some members of this board).
Johnson, Martinson: still fairly popular. Johnson was just discussed not 30 minutes ago on the major literature talkshow on TV.

 

[Daniel del Real]

Re: The Nobel Prize

Daniel says:


So, Daniel, which of these authors have you read so as to be able to judge for yourself what unworthy prizewinners they are? Maybe they have something to say that is still relevant and readable today, but because the "masses" don't read them, they no longer count as interesting.

None of them and I won't read them ever. Sometimes I can have the same prejudices than you do Eric.
Besides I'm not talking about my particular point of view, I'm talking about the place that the history of literature has given them in almost a century after they won the Nobel Prize. Is not only if they masses read them, it's about if they still have an impact on literature and if they can be considered classics. I'm sure at the time they have very interesting things to say, but nowadays they can't be compared with real classics as Yeats or Shaw.

don't project your own lack of reading onto a couple of fine writers.
Mommsen is a stunning writer, his history of Rome is still relevant today, as a history of Rome, a hidden hostory of Wilhelminian Germany, and as a discussion of moral and poloitical issues that we still debate today. He's also steadily reprinted in Germany.

Mistral is one of my fav poets, and of Carducci while not read much, I adore the Barbarian Odes.

Both Eucken and Heyse are mediocre writers, whose reputation at the time seemed indestructible. Heyse was praised by most major German writers, his theory and work seemed durable and important. Turned out: eh, not so much. I think among current writers and candidates, Rushdie could be a Heyse-like candidate.

I have not read Echegaray, Bj?rnson or Prudhomme, but it used to be the case that that was MY problem, not the writers'. My lack of reading is shameful and regrettable, it does not say anything about the writers.

Again, I'm sure they're not bad writers at all, but how can you tell me that they are still important figures in literature's worldwide overview? I'm sure they have cathedratics who studies their works, mainly in their own countries, but that doesn't mean they were able to break the barrier of time. If we go to the comparison, it's truly unbeliveable that academics overlooked such an important alive writers at the time like Tolstoy, Chekhov, Ibsen or Twain. Those we're really outstanding writers that deserved the award way more than most of the writers who obtained it that decade.

 

[Refus de Sejour]

Re: The Nobel Prize

I agree about Rushdie, but I doubt it will ever happen, honouring Rushdie may attract some strong reactions.

Good point. As far as I know him getting the "Booker of Bookers" for Midnight's Children didn't cause much fuss, but people might still be worried that the Nobel would cause things to flare up.

I haven't read any Vollman yet, I've noticed his name popping up around the forum a lot lately. Anything in particular you would recommend?

I started with The Ice Shirt and loved it. It's a kind of mytho-historical fantasy based on the Greenlanders' brief excursion to North America, with bits of the author's experiences in the present day area mixed in. The opening pages are on Amazon.

On the other hand, his early collection of stories The Rainbow Stories almost works as a sampler of Vollman themes - there's feature-style journalism, autobiographical pieces on his personal life, studies of red-light districts and marginal social groups, mytho-historical fantasies.

As for Alan Moore winning the Nobel, I can definitely picture him refusing the honour, or pulling an even stranger tantrum. It would be interesting to see that happen, very slim chance though.

Is he in the habit of turning down awards? I wasn't aware of that, but I guess it's not surprising.

 

[miercuri]

Re: The Nobel Prize

Is he in the habit of turning down awards? I wasn't aware of that, but I guess it's not surprising.

More like in the habit of general wackiness

 

[DB Cooper]

Re: The Nobel Prize

Hmmmm....."travesty" is a strong word, but on reflection I do think a Nobel for Rushdie is overdue. His last few novels have been so-so, but Midnight's Children, The Satanic Verses, Shame and The Moor's Last Sigh are more than reason enough. Rushdie could switch to writing Harlequin romances for the rest of his life, and those four books would still merit the award.

William T. Vollman is either ready or nearly ready for it, on the basis of the Seven Dreams sequence and his unique brand of journalism (can a journalist win the award? Even if not, Vollman's journalism is easily describable as 'literary non-fiction')

And I fully realise this is a pipe dream, but.... Alan Moore. Fact is, his comic books leave most novels for dead. But I'm not gonna hold my breath on this one




While I agree with others that the writer needs to have build up a substantial body of work, I don't think age should be that significant a factor. In theory, someone could write 4 or 5 stunning novels by the age of 30, and so have left behind a body of work so strong that any future weaker books would not sully it.

Eric, what does Nobel's word choice suggest in the original Swedish? In the English translation, he doesn't seem to be talking about a writer's complete oeuvre.

I agree that, as far as an American winning the prize, Vollmann is the next best hope. I think if Pynchon, DeLillo, Roth, etc were going to win it would have already happened. I think Vollmann would be an excellent choice. The problem being how will the Nobel committee view some of the subjects that Vollmann has devoted a lot of ink to, namely prostitutes. On the basis of his work he should definitely be a contender in years to come. As far as a Vollmann into, I also agree with The Ice Shirt. I tried to get into his work with a couple other books with no success, but I picked up The Ice Shirt and everything fell into place.

 

[waalkwriter]

Re: The Nobel Prize

I never know quite how much to trust people's suggestions though. One writer here many people are a big fan of here and who they think should have won a Nobel is Italo Calvino, however the mere thought of picking up one of his books, particularly his most famous work, Invisible Cities, simply exhausts me.

William Vollman is a machine as far as writing goes. He cranks out enormous tomes on an almost yearly basis, and has been jokingly referred to as America's biggest tree-killer. The Ice-Shirt has perked my interest, if only because I have, as always, a great fancy for all things regarding Nordic history/myth. I still hope to see Edward Albee given the award though before he dies, as he's really been the premier American playwright for the last fifty years or so, and has a large and impressive body of works that definitely merit it.

To turn some of these questions on there heads, I would be interested to know if there are any Nobel winners that are completely forgotten about in their home countries, much less the world. I'd be willing to bet there are a few.

I very much want to read Par Lagerkvist and Carl Spitteler, but alas in Spitteler's case I cannot find a good translation of Olympic Springs. I have read Rainier Rilke's Orpheus Sonnets in German--with the English translations right across the page for easy reference. Some amazing works there, too bad he didn't live long enough to get the award, for he surely would have. "Wissen wirs, freunde, oder wissen wirs nicht? I forgot how another line that particular one goes, but it's something like, "Er wie ein wandelnes lied durchfliess," It flows like a wandering song.

 

[Liam]

Re: The Nobel Prize

Some twenty years later you have Brodsky, another clumsy poet...

Actually, I don't agree. I read a lot of Brodsky in the original Russian and he is anything but clumsy. I think he just doesn't translate well into English, especially when he undertakes to translate his poetry on his own.

If you can read Russian, even basic Russian, I suggest you hunt down his early poem The Pilgrims--while it didn't exactly change my life, it did change my "vision" and the way I generally look at things.

 

[Refus de Sejour]

Re: The Nobel Prize

I think Vollmann would be an excellent choice. The problem being how will the Nobel committee view some of the subjects that Vollmann has devoted a lot of ink to, namely prostitutes.

That's occurred to me also. The Nobels seem to have a moralistic tone - not just about the politics of the author, but the work itself.

Miercuri: I'd still like to see Moore given the opportunity to turn it down. You never know, he might go for it. I see he's forgone any proceeds from film adaptations in return for having his name removed from all credits, which I understand entirely.

(P.S: pretty sure he wouldn't pull a Sartre anyway!)

 

[Refus de Sejour]

Re: The Nobel Prize

One writer here many people are a big fan of here and who they think should have won a Nobel is Italo Calvino, however the mere thought of picking up one of his books, particularly his most famous work, Invisible Cities, simply exhausts me.

Invisible Cities really isn't a book that should exhaust anyone. Think of it as a book of prose poems and focus initially more on the individual chapters, not worrying about the overall pattern they fall into. Or alternatively, read it as a children's book - a catalogue of exotic, fantastical places.

 

[waalkwriter]

Re: The Nobel Prize

Invisible Cities really isn't a book that should exhaust anyone. Think of it as a book of prose poems and focus initially more on the individual chapters, not worrying about the overall pattern they fall into. Or alternatively, read it as a children's book - a catalogue of exotic, fantastical places.

I dunno. It looks like it is thinking too much, and I have been trying to avoid books that think too much lately ^^

 

[learna]

Re: The Nobel Prize

I completely agree with you, Liam, The Pilgrims is a wonderful poem.


"Мои мечты и чувства в сотый раз
Идут к тебе дорогой пилигримов"
В. Шекспир

Мимо ристалищ, капищ,
мимо храмов и баров,
мимо шикарных кладбищ,
мимо больших базаров,
мира и горя мимо,
мимо Мекки и Рима,
синим солнцем палимы,
идут по земле пилигримы.
Увечны они, горбаты,
голодны, полуодеты,
глаза их полны заката,
сердца их полны рассвета.
За ними поют пустыни,
вспыхивают зарницы,
звезды горят над ними,
и хрипло кричат им птицы:
что мир останется прежним,
да, останется прежним,
ослепительно снежным,
и сомнительно нежным,
мир останется лживым,
мир останется вечным,
может быть, постижимым,
но все-таки бесконечным.
И, значит, не будет толка
от веры в себя да в Бога.
...И, значит, остались только
иллюзия и дорога.
И быть над землей закатам,
и быть над землей рассветам.
Удобрить ее солдатам.
Одобрить ее поэтам.

Brodsky wrote interesting prose, as well - both in plot and in lexicon. I think that in his case political topicality played its role but it was not the main reason for his award.

 

[Liam]

Re: The Nobel Prize

I completely agree with you, Liam, The Pilgrims is a wonderful poem.

Thank you, Learna, for looking up and posting this beautiful poem (my favorite by Brodsky).

 

[Bubba]

Re: The Nobel Prize

Perhaps it is nice, but as I don't know Russian (I think I see a "yes" in that poem) I couldn't say.

I've heard that pieces like "On Grief and Reason" and "In a Room and a Half" are good--the titles are certainly excellent--but the Brodsky book on Venice I started was boring. It certainly didn't want to make me read any more of his prose.

I was also under the impression that Brodsky didn't just translate his own poetry into English, that in the last twenty years or so of his life he wrote directly in English. Perhaps these are the poems I don't like. I remember one on the death of General Zhukov. So bad you wonder if it's parody. Don't know if it was first written in Russian or English.

 

[learna]

Re: The Nobel Prize

I am reading In a Room and a Half now and I would say that the beginning is promising.

His poem On the Death of Zhukov, I think, is much weaker than The Pilgrims ( it is a pity that Brodsky did not translate it himself) and some other his poems.

The fact is that Brodsy's style is not smooth; it is original, say again, interesting in lexicon and thoughts.

But as with many writers/poets some of his works are good, some are worse.

I think I see a "yes" in that poem

The first step is as good as half over .

 

[Ben Jackson]

The first decade 1900-1909
Sully Prudhomme
Frederick Mistral/ Jose Echegaray
Giouse Carducci
Eucken

1910-1919

Paul Heysee
Maurice Maeterlinck
Verneer Von Heidenstam
Romain Rolland
Karl Gjellerup
Carl Spitteler

1920/1939
Jacinto Benevente
Wdyslaw Reymont
Erik Karlfeldt
Roger Martin Du Gard
Pearl Buck

1940/1999
Mikhail Sholokhov
Harry Martinson/ Eyvnid Johnson
Jaroslav Seifert
Dario Fo