Translated literature - books, websites

[Stewart]

That translation index is rather bad, isn't it? I put in a number of my recently read translations and only one appeared.

You'll probably find that as sites like LibraryThing and GoodReads develop and their subscribed 'librarians' set about editing and adding new details, that we'll probably get a better translation database from them.

 

[Eric]

After seeing what Howard has said about the UNESCO Index Translationum, I was vain enough to see if the two books I've translated by Jaan Kross were listed there. As I translated them into what amounts to the world language at present, English, I thought they might have picked up the details. But unless I've missed something, out of the 92 translations listed for Kross, neither of my translations are there, one from 1995, the other from 2003.

I then tried the other author I've dealt with recently, Mati Unt. I've translated one novel, and another translator, Ants Eert, has translated another novel by him. No records at all for this author, although I know for a fact that he's also been translated into Russian, German, Swedish, Finnish and so on.

A third author I've done is Friedebert Tuglas (2006). Again, no entries at all, although I know he's been translated into several languages, including Finnish and Polish.

If you then type in the language Estonian, assuming that to mean the language of the original work, you get a scatty list, not even in full alphabetical order, and with no breakdown into categories (it is the person trying to use these lists that gets the breakdown...).

I then tried a better known author. I believe that the Chairman of the Translators Association (London), Shaun Whiteside, has translated two, maybe three, of Am?lie Nothomb's novels into English. None seem to be listed.

I can't see Ina Rilke's translation of novels by Willem Frederik Hermans among the 20 or so relevant entries.

For Louis Paul Boon, they have one small novel, "Minuet" in English, translated by Adrienne Dixon, but neither her translation of "Chapel Road" or Paul Vincent's of "Summer in Termuren".

There are 72 entries for Jaroslaw Iwaszkiewicz. But the recent English translation of six of his stories just ain't there.

That's enough testing. This project is no doubt hideously well funded, yet the results are, as Howard, Stewart and others suggest, virtually useless. I would love to know exactly who is working on the collation and categorisation of the information, because it looks like one sole overworked librarian called Miss Hit-and-Miss.

So I agree with Howard: worse than useless; a complete mess. I wanna find out who's responsible, as there are no names on the website, as far as I can see, apart from two: Mariusz Tukaj and Mauro Rosi. See:

http://portal.unesco.org/culture/en/ev.php-URL_ID=7810&URL_DO=DO_TOPIC&URL_SECTION=205.html

 

[missmaggs]

Howard, you must be looking incorrectly. Just type in the last name of the author into the author field and you will get 2048 results! If we want to delimit this to Georges Simenon than we input the data in the following way:

Simenon; Georges

If you put it in any different way it won't work, It's a bit fussy that search... but it is not cooompletely useless- when I put the data in the way I xplained I got 2046 results, into all sorts of laguages (I did not delimit the data to any one particular language).

Anyway, try again and see if it works for you this time - just remember: there is only one way of putting in the data: It's UNESCO's way or the Highway

good luck!!

 

[missmaggs]

I then tried the other author I've dealt with recently, Mati Unt. I've translated one novel, and another translator, Ants Eert, has translated another novel by him. No records at all for this author, although I know for a fact that he's also been translated into Russian, German, Swedish, Finnish and so on.

A third author I've done is Friedebert Tuglas (2006). Again, no entries at all, although I know he's been translated into several languages, including Finnish and Polish.

If you then type in the language Estonian, assuming that to mean the language of the original work, you get a scatty list, not even in full alphabetical order, and with no breakdown into categories (it is the person trying to use these lists that gets the breakdown...).

I then tried a better known author. I believe that the Chairman of the Translators Association (London), Shaun Whiteside, has translated two, maybe three, of Am?lie Nothomb's novels into English. None seem to be listed.

I can't see Ina Rilke's translation of novels by Willem Frederik Hermans among the 20 or so relevant entries.

For Louis Paul Boon, they have one small novel, "Minuet" in English, translated by Adrienne Dixon, but neither her translation of "Chapel Road" or Paul Vincent's of "Summer in Termuren".

There are 72 entries for Jaroslaw Iwaszkiewicz. But the recent English translation of six of his stories just ain't there.

That's enough testing. This project is no doubt hideously well funded, yet the results are, as Howard, Stewart and others suggest, virtually useless. I would love to know exactly who is working on the collation and categorisation of the information, because it looks like one sole overworked librarian called Miss Hit-and-Miss.

So I agree with Howard: worse than useless; a complete mess. I wanna find out who's responsible, as there are no names on the website, as far as I can see, apart from two: Mariusz Tukaj and Mauro Rosi. See:

Index Translationum: UNESCO Culture Sector

Ok, Eric, I beg to differ; when I put in Unt; Mati into the search box I got 25 records...fair enough I don;t know whether your translation is there cause I don;t know your name

Similarily, when I inputted Tuglas;Friedebert I got 15 records spanning accross 2 decades (now I am not saying that these are ALL of his translations, but still...)

As to Boon, I agree with you...however if these are very recent translations (like from 2005/6 onwards then you will have no joy, as they seemed to stop updating the bloody thing then).

Guys, please try again and let me know your thoughts. I am using this database as one of my sources for a conference so I need to be sure it is not completely useless! like I said don't expect a lot (or anything) for very recent stuff.

 

[missmaggs]

I was vain enough to see if the two books I've translated by Jaan Kross were listed there. As I translated them into what amounts to the world language at present, English, I thought they might have picked up the details. But unless I've missed something, out of the 92 translations listed for Kross, neither of my translations are there, one from 1995, the other from 2003.

Ok, found your translations of Kross on the BookTrust website. Fair enough, they are not listed in the index, which is rather weird....

hmmmm....

I have just written to UNESCO staff (Mariusz Tukaj) asking for a clarification o the databases undrlying methodology etc. Hopefully will get a prompt response.

I want to ask you something, though.
Would you know where can I get fully (or nearly) comprehensive list of traslations of european literature??

I am doing a conference paper on 'Polish Literature in the Context of European Literature,' and my claim is that Polish lit is not being translated thouroughy enough into English (why English?? global language argument), that from outside, European lit would seem circumscribed to French, English, German, Russian, Spanish and Italian lit... That poland is seen as an extension of russia, that we [yes, I am polish ] are margianlized in representation in the Enlgish language...which, whether we like it or not, is infact the gloabal language of our time.... (i know that other countries in Europe have it even worse in this respect!)...

SO: where else can I do a comparative study of tranlation into Enlgish.
The only languages I speak flently enough to be doing research in are Polish, and English

 

[Howard]

Missmaggs, I only just saw your post of March 2 with instructions on how to enter names (but how did you know that was the way?) I agree, you do get rather better results, but the Index is still far from perfect. When I entered my own name, I found 9 titles (though two were editions of the same book), but none of the nearly 30 other translations I've had published to date.

 

[Eric]

Miss Maggs, as you indicated with your smiley, you know you can work out the kabbalistic secret of my real name by adding this nom-de-cyberspace of mine to the surname of a 19th century novelist (which happens, by sheer co?ncidence, to be my real surname).

I'm pretty pissed off with UNESCO for not listing my translations. That's the blunt truth. I wonder whether Howard feels the same way. UNESCO seems to have a weirdly selective, rather than all-embracing, system. I get the feeling that the sinecure of making UNESCO translations lists is held down by two people, neither of whom pay the project they're paid for very much attention. I did, of course, notice the Polish name Mariusz Tukaj, so I'm really glad, Miss Maggs, that you are asking him po polsku, so he can't claim not to have understood the question.

The Booktrust website is fine for what it is. As I wrote an article for that website, it is hardly surprising that my name is there alongside that of Kross. One bloody weird thing is that my name is in big letters on the following pages of the Booktrust website:

Booktrust Translated Fiction: > Features > Opinion pieces

and more specifically:

Booktrust Translated Fiction: > show > feature > Opinion pieces > Translation Eric Dickens

But when you type my name into the on-site Booktrust search engine, there are no results. No quick fame for me. But I shall persevere and do reviews for them, if they want them. I do, after all, have a knowledge of several literatures and am an Englishman.

Of course Brits don't publish much Polish literature in English translation. The diaspora from Poland, immediately after WWII, only brought about 200,000 Polish exiles past the White Cliffs of Dover. Brits have, for the most, worshipped Polish literature. British publishing houses always have someone in-house who can read Polish, although it is a minor language with only about 40 million native-speakers. Is the sarcasm getting through?

What about the Three Percent website at Rochester University, over the pond? If you do a survey for them, you would be perfectly entitled to say that the Brits weren't interexsted, so you went to the Yanks instead. I am an Englishman, but I find that some of the university presses in the USA more receptive when you start talking about translation, instead of saying "oh, how interesting!" and then ignoring you when you begin to give details.

 

[Eva]

One inaccuracy in my last posting. I may have given the mistaken impression that Karl Ristikivi exists in translation. He almost doesn't. This is another weird Swedish story. Ristikivi fled to Sweden in 1944 and lived near Stockholm until his death in 1977. Yet not one of his fifteen or so novels has ever been translated into Swedish, his country of residence, let alone any other language - until one appeared recently in French. Why this is remains a mystery. This is a stylistically sophisticated author, whose 1953 novel "Night of Souls" would be well worth publishing. (Strangely enough, not the one the French translator chose.)

I?d explain the choice of the French translator Jean Pascal Ollivry with his musical tasteMonsieur Ollivry used to sing in the Gregorian chant group Vox Clamantis (they are good!) and the opening novel of Ristikivi?s great historical cycle might have captured him with its medieval material and setting (via dolorosa of the last Hohenstaufen Conradin through Germany and Italy in the second half of the 13th century) but also with its chronicle style which has some resemblance to the Gregorian chant. If you can read French, try to find L'?tendard en flammes (Paris, Alvik 2005) and read it. You won?t regret it. Don?t be disheartened by the thought that this is a part of a cycle ? every novel is readable independently.

 

[Eric]

I'm going to read Ristikivi in Estonian. I wonder whether Eva's reading Umberto Eco is co?ncidental with the fact that Eco has just received an honorary doctorate at the University of Tartu. Eco is, of course, a semioticist and Tartu is famous for Yuri Lotman and the Moscow Tartu School of Semiotics.

 

[Eva]

I wonder whether Eva's reading Umberto Eco is co?ncidental with the fact that Eco has just received an honorary doctorate at the University of Tartu.

No, it is not coincidental. Our department of semiotics had some seminars of Eco-logy and Eco-critics before Himself came yesterday. We (re)read his ?Theory of semiotics? and ?Lector in fabula? and ?Kant and the Platypus?. ?Six walks in the Fictional Woods? appeared in Estonian two weeks ago and I really enjoyed it. Eco as a semiotician (medievist/philosopher) is far better than Eco as a writer. In my humble opinion.


Btw, Eric, Sofi Oksanen?s ?Puhdistus? is now available in Estonian, translated by Jan Kaus, published by Varrak. I want to buy a copy immediately.

 

[Eric]

Thanks for that, Eva. Glad to hear that Eco the Semioticist is better than Eco the Novelist. I only know his semioticism from an essay about James Bond that I once read in Swedish translation.

I've got the feeling that Sofi Oksanen's "Puhastus" (as opposed to "Puhdistus") will be presented somewhere in Estonia on 11th May. Maybe the obese version of Lenin, Johan B?ckman, will help promote the book... Jan Kaus will be editing an anthology I'm translating, but I haven't had much contact with him lately.

I've got the Finnish version, "Puhdistus", but I find Finnish harder to read than Estonian. My reading vocabulary is limited.

I was looking at some poetry by Elo Viiding today. Her poetry can be weird, but fun - when you understand it.

 

[Eva]

Yes, Sofi Oksanen will come next week and present her novel in Kuressaare, P?rnu, Tartu and Tallinn (12-15 May).
Today began the literary festival Prima Vista, I bought there a copy of "Puhastus" and started reading it. So far brilliant. My Finnish wouldn't be sufficient either, Oksanen's language is profuse and elaborated.
I'm trying to be tolerant but I really hope that Johan B?ckman stays away from Estonia. Oksanen's book sells very well and does not need such a promotion... This man makes me sick.

 

[Eva]

I just finished Sofi Oksanen's novel "Puhdistus" - I read Estonian translation which was very good, as I didn't notice anything "wrong". Oksanen has used lines from Paul-Eerik Rummo's poems as mottos and some titles, seems that one of them has been stranger to the translator so he has translated this phrase directly from Finnish - but that was the only "fault" I found.
The novel itself is really worth reading and as I've read it will be soon translated into 20 or so languages. I'm thankful to Sofi Oksanen and happy for her success.

 

[Eric]

Yes, Eva, I keep asking people when the English translation is appearing. But no one seems to know. Anyway, nice to hear that she will be launching the book in Pyarnu, Derpt, Revel and Kingissepp, or should that be Pernau, Dorpat, Reval and Arensberg... So many names.

Here's a picture of the gorgeous man you admire, interviewing Nosferatu:

 

[Eva]

From Sofi Oksanen's page I found:
Puhdistus, k??nn?sopimukset 12.2.2009, suluissa alustavat ilmestymisajat:
Ruotsi, Albert Bonniers (tammikuu 2010)
Norja, Oktober (tammikuu 2010)
Tanska, Rosinante (tammikuu 2010)
Saksa, Kiepenheuer & Witsch (syksy 2010)
Hollanti, Ambo/Anthos (syksy 2009)
Italia, Guanda (syksy 2009)
Ranska, Stock (syksy 2010)
Espanja, 451 Editores (kev?t 2010)
USA, Grove/Atlantic (auki)
Israel, Kinneret-Zmora (2 vuoden sis?ll?)
Viro, Varrak (toukokuu 2009)
Ven?j?, Limbus Press (1, 5 vuoden p??st?)
Puola, Bertelsmann Media (kev?t 2010)
Kroatia, Aora (ajankohta auki)
Romania, Tritonic (auki)
Tsekki, Euromedia (auki)
Islanti (2010)
Liettua, Versus Aureus (auki)
Kreikka, Topos (auki)

So, English translation will appear in US. God knows when.
And thanks for the picture *evil grin*.

 

[Lola]

Spring release date for Puhdistus

I'm translating Puhdistus into English for Grove / Atlantic. The book is scheduled for release in spring 2010.

 

[Eric]

Lola, welcome to the forum. Glad you're writing. I'm looking forward to the English translation in the spring. Has Grove / Atlantic managed to persuade its British arm (Canongate, Edinburgh?) to publish it there too? I've got the Finnish version and have asked for Jan Kaus' Estonian translation, but I think it would be easiest for an Englishman like me to read in English!

As a translator from Estonian, a language just about no one in Western Europe was aware of until about twenty years ago, I am of course fascinated that a Finn (albeit a half-Estonian one!) has written a novel about the complexities of Soviet Estonian life. Finland got rather a bad press for a few decades on account of Finlandisation / suomettuminen; so it has taken a brave soul like Oksanen to break the taboos and show how poverty, prostitution, compromise, betrayal and feminism were all interlinked in the Soviet Union in a very convoluted way.

Puhdistus / Puhastus / Purge links up with Estonian novels and stories by people such as Ene Mihkelson, Heino Kiik, Jaan Kross, Mats Traat, Mati Unt, Elo Viiding and others who have examined the complexities of being a small, powerless state on the edge of (what used to be) a world power. In the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic, no one was squeaky clean. People had to make endless compromises with the Communist Party, the KGB, and so on, if they wanted to lead normal lives. Now that Estonia is living in postcolonial times, younger generations have to be taught what it was like to live in a country where you could be excluded from doing certain jobs because of what your parents or grandparents did, and could be sent to a labour camp if you tried to protest.

 

[Lola]

Hello Eric,

Thanks for the welcome. I haven't heard about any planned Cannongate publication of Puhdistus as yet.

There is something interesting about translating a novel about Estonia from Finnish. The book was written with a Finnish audience in mind, and the relationship between Finland and Estonia is important in key ways.

I've recently read your translation of Matti Unt's Things in the Night, which I enjoyed very much. It has a dark absurdity that I associate with the late Soviet era, but it is also its own strange and wonderful thing.

Puhdistus is an attempt at an examination of the psychology of one person over the course of a life lived in that dark and absurd system. I think that being a member of a younger generation and being from an emigrant family may have given Oksanen a useful emotional distance from her subject. She has an abundance of knowledge of that era in Estonia, but she is nevertheless an outsider, with an outsider's objectivity.

 

[Eric]

Yes, Lola, you make a good point about the insider-outsider status of a translator with some roots in the other country, as with Oksanen.

Another thing that amuses me about her is that if you were just to see her picture, in Gothic garb, in the newspaper, you'd think that this was just another theatrical writer, doing a Lordi on the world. And yet she appears to know her onions regarding Estonia at various levels.

Her reportage in HS about all the country houses in Estonia, half of them in ruins, must also have been an eye-opener for people who didn't know what the real-life Soviet Union was like. The lucky manor houses were turned into schools, the unlucky ones were used as a brick quarry.

Of course, another dimension of these manor houses is that they were built up by the German baronial upper classes (although all the actual building work will have been done by Estonian- and Russian-speakers). When you compare that with my native Britain, the immediate difference is that the German-speakers formed a layer between the Russian government and the Estonian peasantry. In those days in Britain, the upper, middle and working classes were all of the same nationality although the British royal family has a nickname "The Germans", as they were all from Germany a few generations ago, the family name being Battenberg. During the First World War, when Britain was at war with Germany, they shrewdly changed this blatantly German surname to Mountbatten.

The Finns had this kind of layer in between them and the Russian imperial government with the upper class Helsinki Finland-Swedes (not the one from ?sterbotten and ?land, of course).

I contacted Canongate with a project of my own, and asked about Puhdistus while I was about it. But they appear to have editorial independence from Grove Atlantic and seemed to express not knowledge of, or interest in, Oksanen.

As for Mati Unt, that was the craziest novel I've ever translated. The narrative jumping from one topic to the next, and the surfeit of leitmotif realia concerning electricity, are pretty weird. I've just translated another novel by Unt called Brecht at Night (Brecht ilmub ??sel in the original), which should appear in the autumn. This one is an interesting mixture of a wacky description of spoilt brat Brecht, living it up in exile in Helsinki with his wife, mistresses and Hella Wuolijoki (Erkki Tuomioja's grandmother), contrasted with a clinical description from real documents of Estonia, 80 kilometres away, which was being occupied by the Soviets at the same time - the year 1940.

 

[missmaggs]

I'm pretty pissed off with UNESCO for not listing my translations. That's the blunt truth. I wonder whether Howard feels the same way. UNESCO seems to have a weirdly selective, rather than all-embracing, system. I get the feeling that the sinecure of making UNESCO translations lists is held down by two people, neither of whom pay the project they're paid for very much attention. I did, of course, notice the Polish name Mariusz Tukaj, so I'm really glad, Miss Maggs, that you are asking him po polsku, so he can't claim not to have understood the question.

Eric,

Not sure whether you still remember- I was awaiting response from Mariusz Tukaj from Unesco to shed some light on the whole Index Translationum modus operandi. Well. you'll be happy to hear he did get back to me, and really rather promptly, it's just myself that's been acting the maggot and only posting his reply here now...my apologies!!

Anyhowz, so according to what he's saying it's really up to the NAtional Libraies to provide UNESCO with up to date information. Or national bibliographic centres. Each year, the libraries or bibliographic centres are meant to send over annual translation records for archiving.

The British Library must statutorily receive a copy of each book published on the British Isles and in Ireland. It is then their obligation to research the data and provide UNESCO with a bibliography of translations published in all fields of writing. Unfortunately, for some odd, altogether wonderous reason, the Her MAjesty's National Library (over on the Isles ) has not supplied the Index Staff with any records since 1990!!! Britian is amongst the worst laggers participating in the entire project. The staff are dubbing this behaviour a veritble streak of British eccentricity.... hmm...

So, it is not really UNESCO that's to blame (cuz it is extremely important to blame somebody and give out stink about them, I, personally find it facilitative in relieving stress ), but the British Library. Perhaps it would be a good idea to petition them, etc, to do something about the situation. Britian constitutes one of the world's top publishing industries, and the Index is grossly incomplete without regular updates from the BritLib.

Hope that explains some concerns.

cheeri-O!