Leseratte
Well-known member
My difficulty at present is a bit different. There are these redundances yes, but what really bothers me is his sexism, the way women are seen and described in the story. I'm going to finish it only because of the wolfie.
WLF Prize 2022 - Javier Marías
- Thread starter Bartleby
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Leseratte
Well-known member
Grrrrrrr...
Ludus
Reader
Oh, yes. That's also present in Infatuations, and it's specially uncomfortable being that the book is narrated by a female character.
Leseratte
Well-known member
That's interesting. I can hardly imagine Marias creating a female narrator.
Ludus
Reader
Yes, I can't describe the aspects of that character that bothered me without giving some heavy spoilers, but yeah, it's uncomfortable...
Leseratte
Well-known member
Of course. Many people will probably read the book yet.
namelesshere
Reader
Having read almost all Marias' output before we began this, I took this an opportunity to read an early work I've hand languishing on my shelves, Voyage Along the Horizon, a slim book about a sea voyage of a group of writers, artists and seamen to the Antarctic. It's definitely a minor work of his, much more focussed on "exciting" plotting and aping people like Conrad & Louis Stevenson, but I found it very enjoyable - he revels in some of those tricks he uses to great effect in later work - stories told within stories, mysteries teased out slowly, presenting shameful characters and shameful actions.... For a novel by a 21 year old, I thought it was absolutely fantastic. His hypnotic style is just my perfect match, but definitely more an enjoyable diversion than a significant work.
Ben Jackson
Well-known member
Let's discuss Javier Marias.
Marias, arguably Spanish greatest living novelist, styles and themes has been vast and versatile. Unlike Murnane whose works can be divided into two branches/eras, Marias doesn't work in this direction. Themes of Marias include metaphysical exploration of and meaning of death and (Tommorrow in the Battle Think on Me), the exploration of love and marriage and family shrouded in secrets (A Heart So White), love, death, murder, and guilt (The Infatuations), espionage (his monumental, highly acclaimed trilogy Your Face Tommorrow, based on the reviews I've read, haven't read the books), all these works written with a seductive, challenging style revealing the characters' psyche with influences, in these novels listed, ranging from Shakespeare and Proust and, I must add this, Camus in the first novel listed, and for me his masterpiece(Tommorrow in the Battle), Henry James and Thomas Bernhard (A Heart So White, The Infatuations) and Grahame Greene and John Le Carre (Your Face Tommorrow). But while, I must reiterate, haven't read the Trilogy, among the other three works listed, which I have all read, Tommorrow is the best work for it's depth and magnificent insight. The other two not close enough. I just wished the other two (A Heart and Infatuations) had the power and insight of the first.
Marias, arguably Spanish greatest living novelist, styles and themes has been vast and versatile. Unlike Murnane whose works can be divided into two branches/eras, Marias doesn't work in this direction. Themes of Marias include metaphysical exploration of and meaning of death and (Tommorrow in the Battle Think on Me), the exploration of love and marriage and family shrouded in secrets (A Heart So White), love, death, murder, and guilt (The Infatuations), espionage (his monumental, highly acclaimed trilogy Your Face Tommorrow, based on the reviews I've read, haven't read the books), all these works written with a seductive, challenging style revealing the characters' psyche with influences, in these novels listed, ranging from Shakespeare and Proust and, I must add this, Camus in the first novel listed, and for me his masterpiece(Tommorrow in the Battle), Henry James and Thomas Bernhard (A Heart So White, The Infatuations) and Grahame Greene and John Le Carre (Your Face Tommorrow). But while, I must reiterate, haven't read the Trilogy, among the other three works listed, which I have all read, Tommorrow is the best work for it's depth and magnificent insight. The other two not close enough. I just wished the other two (A Heart and Infatuations) had the power and insight of the first.
Leseratte
Well-known member
I have read only Thus Bad Begins, started Your Face Tomorrow, but gave up after more than ten pages on the nature of treason.
What struck me in the one book I read was the combination of a "seductive style" as stated by Ben with very archaic elements of Spanish Culture: the concept of treason ( that in his oeuvre ranges from adultery to blackmail) in its typical "Latin" acceptation; the emotional dependence of women on men; the necessity of maintaining appearances at any cost; the narrowness of outlook of supposedly cultivate strata of society. Add to this the background of a generation, where the wounds of the Spanish Civil War and the Franco period haven´t healed yet.
The book has the merit to reveal secret aspects of the maybe darkest period of Spanish history that weren´t as yet a literary theme. In these sense his stylistic trick in a sort of Barock game serve maybe to distract the reader from the unpalatable truths the novel is serving.
What struck me in the one book I read was the combination of a "seductive style" as stated by Ben with very archaic elements of Spanish Culture: the concept of treason ( that in his oeuvre ranges from adultery to blackmail) in its typical "Latin" acceptation; the emotional dependence of women on men; the necessity of maintaining appearances at any cost; the narrowness of outlook of supposedly cultivate strata of society. Add to this the background of a generation, where the wounds of the Spanish Civil War and the Franco period haven´t healed yet.
The book has the merit to reveal secret aspects of the maybe darkest period of Spanish history that weren´t as yet a literary theme. In these sense his stylistic trick in a sort of Barock game serve maybe to distract the reader from the unpalatable truths the novel is serving.
Liam
Administrator
The first book from him that I read was the novella The Man of Feeling, which I thought was good but like Leseratte said, just not my cup of tea.
Not that it matters in light of this terrible loss, but what do we do now? Do we give him an honorary Wolfie? I feel it's a little unfair to keep him in the running and competing with the living, ?
Although if people's minds are already made up (more or less), we could just proceed with the voting as planned.
Not that it matters in light of this terrible loss, but what do we do now? Do we give him an honorary Wolfie? I feel it's a little unfair to keep him in the running and competing with the living, ?
Although if people's minds are already made up (more or less), we could just proceed with the voting as planned.
redhead
Blahblahblah
The first book from him that I read was the novella The Man of Feeling, which I thought was good but like Leseratte said, just not my cup of tea.
Not that it matters in light of this terrible loss, but what do we do now? Do we give him an honorary Wolfie? I feel it's a little unfair to keep him in the running and competing with the living, ?
Although if people's minds are already made up (more or less), we could just proceed with the voting as planned.
I've read books by all three, though I'd like a bit more time before our vote to finish a few others.
And I also vote for an honorary one, and then a choice between Jaeggy and Murnane.
errequatro
Reader
I actaully think we could still award him , given the proximity of the prize... I am dumbfounded. He was my number 1 pick.
Devastated ;(
errequatro
Reader
Honorary wolfie seems the best idea. As I wrote elsewhere, I was going to vote for him as my first choice. He is my favourite amongst our candidates. (Different caliber altogether,imho).
But rules are rules. So, I think we can give him an honorary one and choose betwen the other two.
But rules are rules. So, I think we can give him an honorary one and choose betwen the other two.
Ben Jackson
Well-known member
My friends, you've spoken very well. I also agree with Marias given an Honorary Wolfie. An adage from my community says "the voice of the people is the voice of God." So I agree with you all.
Bartleby
Moderator
We Brazilians also say that. How curious!
Cleanthess
Dinanukht wannabe
No, we shouldn't. If we could award dead writers, then next year let's nominate Shakespeare, Homer and Dante. A true match for the ages.
Stevie B
Current Member
Not sure if this comment was said tongue in cheek or whether you're supporting your opinion with a false analogy.
Cleanthess
Dinanukht wannabe
Sorry about that. Just extracting the urine.
errequatro
Reader
I don't normally appreciate sarcastic condescencion when not warranted. ("A true match for the ages." Was that really necessary?)
The situation is very peculiar. We didn't nominate a dead writer (he was alive when we made the choice), he died a few days before any decision was going to be reached and, more importantly, we have spent a whole year evaluating his work.
Plus, it's easier (and unfair) to win against someone one is competing against when that person died.
If one of the other candidates died, would we award the "last person standing" just for the sake of it? Would that truly reflect the deliberation, and thought process behind the decision? Would it, alas, be representative?
If my first choice was Marias, am I forced to give 3 points to a writer I don't think deserves it?
So, no, it's not the same.
Even the Nobel Prize allows for such an occurance. (A writer can still be awarded if he/she died after he/she was chosen.)
For a literature forum, I am suprised that we re taking things with such a lack of nuance. Literature does not mean literally.
I honestly think he could remain in contention, but because there is a rule, I understand it is complicated. So the solution suggested elsewhere was to award an "honorary" WLF Prize and decided between the other two. Seems like a good compromise.
On a side note:
I don't come to the forum to vent petty sarcastic comments or to show off or anything of the sort. I participate simply because of my love for literature and the otherwise friendly environment most members create here. To exchange opinions and views. To learn. To discover new writers.
If I wanted to be condescended to, I certainly would not choose this forum.
Granted, you are entitled your opinion. But if this is how you choose to manifest it, I can always resign from coming here.
In fact, you just achieved my retracting from voting on the WLF prize. I will not be coherced in these terms.
Consider myself out of the "jury".
My apologies to the rest of the community.
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