redhead
Blahblahblah
What are your thoughts on his early books? I read a study of his work in college and thought his first four books when he was still figuring out his style sounded interesting, but unfortunately they haven’t been translated.
Nobel Prize in Literature 2021 Speculation
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What are your thoughts on his early books? I read a study of his work in college and thought his first four books when he was still figuring out his style sounded interesting, but unfortunately they haven’t been translated.
redhead
Blahblahblah
Has there been any movement since the lists were posted?
Americanreader
Well-known member
I hadn't checked before now, so I can't tell you. I feel like this list seems almost the same as the one from last year though. They should come hang out here more often ha ha.
nagisa
Spiky member
IIRC, he disavowed his first four completely and consistently refused they be republished.
From here: [these four books] "que l’écrivain a par la suite écartés de son œuvre et refusé de manière constante de voir réédités, ces jalons d’une « évolution par tâtonnements » risquant de donner une « idée erronée » de son œuvre. Conçus, hormis Le Tricheur, entre 30 et 40 ans, ce ne sont pas à proprement parler des livres de jeunesse, mais ils ont tous été écrits dans une période très difficile, sur le plan collectif et personnel, pour leur auteur: la guerre, qui a interrompu l’écriture du Tricheur, le suicide en octobre 1944 de sa première épouse, Lucie Renée Clog, puis le traitement pénible de son hémoptysie."
They're not in his œuvres complètes in the Pléiade edition I have either — not sure where they can be found TBH!
As for his early "recognized" works, reading L'herbe after La route des Flandres showed noticeable progress in style I thought; I've not yet read Le vent. (And have read up to but not including Les géorgiques. It's an intimidating doorstopper.) I'd say this period culminates with Histoire, then he goes into a sharp formalist (?) turn with Les corps conducteurs, until Les géorgiques which looks like an enriched return to form.
Thank you, I trust your judgement Nagisa so I’ll start there, unfortunately it looks like a lot of the English translations of his work are not available.
Another great list, I’ll get mine together this week but delighted to see the continued affection for Beckett and White. I presume you read Beckett in French which I am envious of, despite being Irish he write most of his work in French as he felt English could not convey fully what he wanted to say (and translated most of his work himself back to English).
namelesshere
Reader
Not from the Ladbrokes side of things, no. I don't think anything's moved at all - although a couple of names were added after the betting was opened (Ugresic, Wicomb, Vlasdislavic, one or two others I think). It's interesting to see the other site on nicerodds, there are some names there who are very realistic but who aren't available through Ladkbrokes (e.g. Krasznahorkai).
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Bartleby
Moderator
Do you think La Bataille de Pharsale can be read on its own? It's one of the only three of his novels translated into pt-br (the others being Flandres and Géorgiques) and this in very old editions only available from second hand book shops. I ask you this because on the book's description there's some mentions of characters that appeared in works prior (and later) to Bataille.
Morbid Swither
Well-known member
I will always hold out hope that Adonis will win. There is this magical thinking I have about the reiteration that politics don’t matter, each time a member makes the claim, I read into it that Adonis still has a chance.
Ater Lividus Ruber & V
我ヲ學ブ者ハ死ス
When you get to Le jardin des plantes, you'll definitely see how it influenced Sebald, but I wouldn't start there. The easiest entry into his oeuvre is Leçon de choses, which was translated into English by Daniel Weissbort (he also translated Modiano) as The World About Us. That one is short and will give you a taste of what to expect with Simon. If you don't like it, I wouldn't rush to his other novels.
If Englund somehow became aware of this forum, I wouldn't put it past him to create diversionary tactics. He came up with a bunch when he was permanent secretary. That being said, from looking at the archives from the prizes decades ago, authors on the shortlist tend to come back again and again to be rewarded later. Since we know last year the library wasn't fooled around with...
This is from April 2020
and October 2020:
I wouldn't be surprised if this year's laureate is somewhere there.
You definitely could, but of the three you mentioned, I'd go with Flandres.
Ater Lividus Ruber & V
我ヲ學ブ者ハ死ス
I'm surprised so many members listed Soyinka and Pamuk as their favorites. I've read a good amount of Soyinka's plays, and White Castle, Black Book, Red, New Life, and Snow from Pamuk and really detested them all or felt they were a waste of my time. What about their works excited you?
Salixacaena
Active member
Imo, Ake by Soyinka (his prose autobiography) is far superior to any of his plays. I frequently see it listed as one of the "greatest African" works of the last century. I was required to read it for an introductory world literature course in college.
Pamuk seems very hit or miss to me. I enjoyed Red but didn't think it was perfect by any means and towards the end the narration style and way the characters interacted became grating. The White Castle I thought was bad. It read like Pamuk awkwardly trying to shoehorn Dostoyevsky's The Double into an East vs West dynamic and seemed like a parody of Orientalism.
Salixacaena
Active member
I don't think the library numbers matter much at this point. Are we really expecting all of these authors who were barely if at all checked out the entire summer to suddenly have their entire oeuvre's read in the remaining week or so by Academy members? This just seems like people checking out books now that the odds lists have gone up online.
Seelig
Active member
Thanks, Johnny. Which are your selections, and why?
Concerning Claude Simon I suggest to start with "Le vent" and "L'herbe" and then attack "La route des Flandres" and "Jardin de plantes". Reading in that particular order was much rewarding to me than to start with "Flandres". And yes, Sebald! For me, the greatest of the contemporaries. So much missed (alas, just to imagine what he would have written...).
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Americanreader
Well-known member
I was kind of lukewarm on The White Castle, but I really enjoyed Snow’s film noirish atmosphere, its themes of a conflict between tradition and modernity, religion’s impact on politics, and Ka’s feeling of dislocation and discomfort in his return to Turkey. Because he is never comfortable, the reader is never comfortable. I also liked Silent House, particularly its Faulknerian structure and its similar emphasis on political tension. I did have an issue with the characters, who I thought were overly neurotic and locked in their own heads in a way that was kind of annoying. However, this is one of his early works and he already had another work I loved, so I was more willing to cut him some slack. I like the way Soyinka melds Greek, English, and Nigerian theatrical traditions to make something new and beautiful.
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Martino
Active member
Why are you Ater Lividus always so negative (lividus = 'envious' in latin!) and schematic in your opinions? How can an author be "a waste of one's time"? I do not like everybody's writing of course but - this is only my humble opinion – I am glad there are people out there who try their best to make "literature" happen, year after year. These "people" (Pamuk, Soyinka, and hundreds of others) write and promote non-commercial literature in a time (ours) of technocratic and binary thinking. Bless their hearts!
nagisa
Spiky member
Yes. It's not precisely characters that Simon reuses, but something fainter, overlapping impressions of characters. A seductress named Corinne, a philandering man (an uncle?), a failed military man...
I'd still start with La route des Flandres though.
pinkunicorn
Reader
There were some changes on the nicerodds lists on the 19th, but I think that was just due to their addition of a third bookie at that time, not that either of the two bookies they already tracked changed anything. Unfortunately, I didn't save the old list so I can't check the specifics.
Ater Lividus Ruber & V
我ヲ學ブ者ハ死ス
Thanks! I like seeing what connected with other readers that didn't work for me. Funny, you're not the first to say I should give Aké a chance before writing him off. I'll certainly take a look. I also want to get around to his poems sometime. The grating part of Pamuk... haha. If you ever get around to The Black Book, I want to hear what you make of the main character and that person who keeps calling (you'll know).
Thank you, too! If you're into the noir atmosphere, two newish books that have come out recently in English are Robin Robertson's long poem, The Long Take, which was nominated for the Booker, and Toshihiko Yahagi's The Wrong Goodbye, translated from the Japanese by Alfred Birnbaum. I believe that translation has been finished for many years, so I'm surprised it only just got published. Both of those are on my list. The Wrong Goodbye I can get in the original Japanese, and I'm picking it up soon. Robertson's book is unavailable for me at the moment... but I really want to read it.
Liam
Administrator
My top ten (in reverse chronology):
Tomas Tranströmer
Wislawa Szymborska
Seamus Heaney
Patrick White
Albert Camus
Halldór Laxness
Pär Lagerkvist
William Faulkner
T. S. Eliot
W. B. Yeats
5 poets, 5 novelists (I don't know, can we safely call Camus a "novelist"?) I didn't expect it to be split so evenly
Still holding out hope this year for Paul Muldoon. I guess that's why they call them dreams... when you wake up, they're gone ?
Thank you, everyone, who discussed the respective merits of Patrick White and Claude Simon. I learned a lot!
My favorite White is still probably Voss, though I would also like to put in a word for A Fringe of Leaves, which I didn't see mentioned by anyone.
Tomas Tranströmer
Wislawa Szymborska
Seamus Heaney
Patrick White
Albert Camus
Halldór Laxness
Pär Lagerkvist
William Faulkner
T. S. Eliot
W. B. Yeats
5 poets, 5 novelists (I don't know, can we safely call Camus a "novelist"?) I didn't expect it to be split so evenly
Still holding out hope this year for Paul Muldoon. I guess that's why they call them dreams... when you wake up, they're gone ?
Thank you, everyone, who discussed the respective merits of Patrick White and Claude Simon. I learned a lot!
My favorite White is still probably Voss, though I would also like to put in a word for A Fringe of Leaves, which I didn't see mentioned by anyone.
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